My first voyage with Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Qutluch, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

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    I haven't watched enough episodes to really have an opinion on Mulgrew yet, but she does convey disdain in her voice really well and can show emotion through her facial features better than the first option in Shatnertage's clips. At this point, I still prefer both Sisko and Picard.
     
  2. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh yeah she's great at showing disdain but her attempts at emotion in later years are all overly misty eyes and a labored and predictable facial expression - simpering might be the word.
     
  3. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Mulgrew's a fine actress, equally good at doing comedy and drama. She's one of VOY's strengths.

    And she does the Dismissive Hand Wave.
     
  4. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She has screen presence but that doesn't make her a good actress.
     
  5. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She is a very good actress, and she has really wowed me in her more recent comic roles. You see that in VOY too, she is often very much enjoying the scene and the interplay. It's not all about disdain.. sometimes you can just see she is gritting her teeth at certain characters while putting on her patient captain face.

    Qutlunch she's known for being very personal in her interactions with the crew, she likes to connect to each one of them.
     
  6. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm a huge fan of Kate Mulgrew. I can't speak to her talents relative to Oscar-winners, but I can say without a doubt that she's on the higher end of the spectrum of Trek actors. For example, I think she's a much better actor than Avery Brooks. She really seems to be living in whatever scene she's shooting, not just hitting her mark and reading her lines. It's the little things she does--body language, facial expressions, moving around--that just make her pop more than others.

    And maybe the scene with Tuvok isn't a fair comparison, because the finished Mulgrew version has multiple cameras, while the Bujold one only has one camera, but I like how Mulgrew moves around, making Tim Russ also move as he's talking to her. You get a much better feel for the friendship between the two because of little things like that.

    Having just watched DS9, I can honestly say that Sisko as a character didn't come alive for me the same way that Janeway did, mostly because of the acting. Yeah, Sisko punched Q, and he did lots of other badass stuff, but most of the time he just stood there reading his lines projecting absolutely no emotion whatsoever. That scene where his girlfriend threatens to break up with him and he just kept on eating his dinner, expressionless, convinced me he was completely lacking in empathy.

    Janeway, on the other hand, seems profoundly empathetic, and it's not just because of the dialog, but because of the acting. It's very attuned to the kind of stories they were telling and to the medium. From the start, Mulgrew absolutely nailed what Captain Janeway was about, which I think puts her ahead of everyone but Shatner in that regard. Sir Patrick, of course, is beyond category, but I've got to admit that it took him some time to come to grips with Picard. Mulgrew doesn't seem to have that kind of learning curve--she's not awkward or hesitant in the least here.
     
  7. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

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    Time and Again

    This episode had some great one-liners! Janeway and Paris are trapped in the fracture the day before the explosion occurs. My favorite part of this is when Paris was trying to get rid of the kid that was following them around and he told the kid that they were demons that ate the kid that supposedly came over with on the Continental Transport! Awesome, nothing better than a little cannibalism to scare a kid! Oh, how did they buy clothing on the planet if they didn’t have any money though?

    Speaking of clothes, where did Kes get the awesome uniform? I thought the replicators were broken. I like it that Kes has telepathic capabilities. I like the role that telepaths can play; they can strengthen both dramatic and humorous roles (like Lwaxana Troi)!

    I find myself looking forward to people getting sick because the doctor is hysterical. When Kes went to see him because of her headaches/visions he wasn’t concerned with Kes’ visions, but he did care that he did not have their medical files and that nobody told him that there were new members aboard who didn’t have up-to-date medical records. You have got to love this quote by the doctor: “Seems I have found myself on the voyage of the damned.” Best part, he said it with a smile

    Wow, we actually see Janeway with her hair down. I like it. She seems friendlier, more human. Although, as a woman with long hair I call bull that she is able to keep her hair up as much as she does. Her hair is too thick and her neck would be killing her!

    Tuvok played a larger role in this episode than previous ones. However, he made a very illogical conclusion. When they found the destroyed com badges he claimed that it meant that Paris’ and Janeway’s com badges were trapped in the fracture, but that did not mean that Paris and Janeway were…really? Is this optimism from a Vulcan

    I like the storyline in Time and Again. I think it was a great way to introduce the topic of the Prime Directive. Thinking about it made me wonder how it wasn’t directly violated in the first episode when Janeway blew up the Array in order to save the Ocampa though.

    Least favorite part: That Harry Kim actually thinks his girlfriend is going to wait for him

    Favorite part: The doctor’s quote: “Seems I have found myself on the voyage of the damned.”
     
  8. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    As many as the plot requires there be.
     
  9. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm on a roll tonight. Here's another one.

    Phage

    I love that it started with Janeway fantasizing about eggs benedict and asparagus. Plus, we get to see Neelix cooking! He kind of reminds me of the crazy uncle that no one can possibly get mad at!

    The whole episode was a little odd, but fun. We were introduced to a new culture, and learned about the capabilities of the ship’s doctor. (Is he ever going to give himself a name, or was the first episode just teasing us?) The title Phage was well-chosen considering it is a real virus that infects bacteria.

    I couldn’t stop thinking about Hannibal Lector throughout the whole episode! Especially, when they find the underground cavern with the harvested organs! Apparently roofies are not needed in the future for black market organs… The musical score is quite fitting, especially when the crew was pursuing the Vidiian in the tunnels.

    The holographic lungs discussion with the doctor was awesome. I love it that the doctor turned around and slapped Paris! Neelix is a peculiar fellow. He is told that he may not be able to move again, and his response is that the ceiling is hideous and a few tapestries would be nice. He then goes on a rant about Paris being one big walking hormone trying to move in on Kes. Kes assures him he is wrong, kisses him, and leaves when the doctor boots her out. The doctor than turned around and bent over to fix Neelix’s settings, while assuring him that he would not kiss him too! When Neelix started hyperventilating I kind of hoped the doctor would start singing, “You Are My Sunshine” to calm him down! I love how the Vidiians criticize the doctor for being so primitive; it was a good reinforcement to the doctor’s earlier conversation with Kes.

    Favorite part: Kes slamming the doctor for not keeping up with the ship’s situation (the doctor having to act as the full-time doctor rather than emergency backup). She asks him if he has the capability of learning and insists that he begin to.

    Least favorite part: Janeway decided to let the Vidiian leave. She should have sent them to the doctor to see if the doctor could do something for them, and hopefully get Neelix’s lungs back. Luckily, the Vidiian basically offered it themselves.
     
  10. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To me, "Phage" proved that the VOY writers could create an original, disturbing species.

    The Doctor's name...well, I wouldn't hold my breath.
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well the Vidiian's were a better threat than the Kazon.
     
  12. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

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    All things considered, they weren't that bad of a bunch. They were just pushed into a corner without many options for survival. They were at least polite and provided the technology for Neelix to get his lung transplant! Although, they could have left Neelix with at least one of his lungs in the first place.
     
  13. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

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    My verdict on Janeway is in after watching:

    The Cloud

    Janeway is beginning to realize that if the crew is stuck together for up to 74 years (a lifetime for the majority of the crew) and that the standard captain/crew relationship may not work. Personally, I look at it as more of a mayor/city relationship because of their situation. A mayor needs to have a strong foundation for a city, but also be more personable, getting to know his/her people. I like it that Janeway realizes that her role needs to change in order to fit with their current needs.

    Wow, for the first time I actually like something that came out of Harry Kim’s mouth when he told Paris that they should have invited the Captain to sit with them, and explained to Paris that there isn’t anybody else for her to talk to besides them and that Paris was working by an old rule book. I am assuming that this episode is setting up the explanation/storyline on why there will be a less formal relationship with the Captain/crew. Sigh…my momentary delusion that Kim might be a decent fellow was shortly crushed when he told Paris that he remembers being in his mother’s womb... Why does Paris keep trying to make friends with Kim? He is too much of a namby-pamby. If he drinks late at night he gets heartburn…wimp.

    We see more of Chakotay’s story beginning in this episode. I found his history interesting so I decided to look him up, but according to a few different sites his storyline is not accurate. Check out this article I found:http://www.spiletta.com/rubbertree.html. Wait a minute, Chakotay tells Janeway he has never shown anyone his medicine bundle and that it will help her find an animal guide, but when B’Elanna walks in he makes the comment that she tried to kill her animal guide. So obviously, he has shown it to B’Elanna.

    Finally, we see the holodeck! Paris’ holodeck is full with a gigolos and women of the night! While I am excited to see a holodeck scene, I thought they were having an energy shortage.

    Neelix really is a great character, or should I say Morale Officer. When in a free-fall…cook or sing! Even if he can’t cook, it was great watching him scold Janeway and trying to convince her to drink the coffee substitute. “There’s coffee in that Nebula.” While on the topic of Neelix’s cooking I am reading the Star Trek Cookbook; has anyone tried any of these recipes yet? The Talaxian Mushroom Soup sounds delicious!

    Favorite part: My Janeway verdict: Badass…a captain who can hustle at pool…awesome! She even hits the eight ball in while glaring at Paris; not looking at the table! Janeway with a raised eyebrow: “Solids”. Oh, and to further her badassness in this scene she is graciously hit on by the Gigolo who wants to make passionate love to her! B’Elanna was not so lucky. She gets hit on by the older hustler in a trench coat with the pickup line: “Treat a lady like a tramp and a tramp like a lady; never fails.” (Needless to say, Janeway is still no match for Picard!)

    Least favorite part: I don’t like the title. Considering the Nebula Creature is a living being I don’t think it would like being named after water vapor, or having torpedoes shot into its organs; or equivalent thereof…

    I’m adding a second reoccuring least favorite part even though I really enjoyed this episode: Seatbelts, retractable straps, and a higher guard along the second deck of engineering so people don’t haphazardly fall everywhere when there is turbulence or a full free-fall.
     
  14. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I always assume that just because he tried to teach B'Elanna how to discover her spirit guide, doesn't mean Chakotay shared his medicine bundle.

    My fav line? Oh that's easy.

    JANEWAY: Dismissed. That's a Starfleet expression for get out.
     
  15. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

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    Chakotay did say that he needed the medicine bundle to help her find her animal guide.
     
  16. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes he did , didn't he.

    CHAKOTAY: My medicine bundle. I've never showed it to anyone before. After what you said this morning, I thought it was important to let you see.
    JANEWAY: Will it help me find my animal guide?
    CHAKOTAY: Eventually you'll have to assemble your own medicine bundle, but this will allow me to assist you in your quest for a guide.
    JANEWAY: Now? Now.
    (Chakotay goes up the step to the informal area by the window, puts his bundle on the low table and sits on the floor. It takes a moment for Janeway to take the hint and join him.)
    CHAKOTAY: A blackbird's wing. A stone from the river. An akoonah.
    JANEWAY: Akoonah?
    CHAKOTAY: My ancestors used psychoactive herbs to assist their vision quests. Now they're no longer necessary. Our scientists have found more modern ways to facilitate the search for animal guides. Place your hand on it and concentrate on the stone...

    I think when Janeway told Chakotay that she was worried aobut the crew, and how she wished there was a counselor on board to help them deal with their situation ...

    (Yes, we are 70,000 light years from home, and if BY CHANCE you actually survive the trip, most of your family and friends will either be dead or moved on by the time we get home!)

    ... he rightly realized that Janeway herself was in need of a counselor. Think about it, despite of what Picard and Riker shared as Captain & XO on the Enterprise, it was nothing compared to what Riker and Troi shared.

    PICARD: I, er, I don't know where to begin. It was ...
    TROI: I read your report.
    PICARD: What I didn't put in the report was that at the end he gave me a choice between a life of comfort or more torture. All I had to do was to say that I could see five lights, when in fact, there were only four.
    TROI: You didn't say it?
    PICARD: No, no, but I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all. But more than that, I believed that I could see five lights.

    SO Chakotay realized he couldn't just wait to give Janeway his usual tutorial on finding your spirit guide and devising your own medicine bundle. He realized he needed to lend her his bundle and send her quickly on her journey.

    As always...

    YMMV :mallory:
     
  17. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

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    Eye of the Needle

    They find a wormhole that is not much larger than their probe. They certainly cannot bring the ship through, but maybe a message. The wormhole is in a state of decay. There is somebody on the other side of the wormhole. B’Elanna concludes that the probe will be crushed in 72 hours. They are able to get a message to the Alpha Quadrant: A Romulan captain of a science vessel makes contact with them and then hangs up on them; so to speak…He finally talks to them again. Janeway sweet talks the Romulan into persuading his government to send the ship’s crew personal messages to their families. B’Elanna thinks she can use the visual link-probe to match the transponder frequency to beam the crew through the wormhole (this is why B’Elanna is chief engineer)… When the Romulan captain was transported over I kind of hoped he would get stuck! I haven’t seen much of the Romulans yet. It’s too bad that he is from twenty years in the past. Of course Kim wants to transport back to be two again; he loves to cry about everything! Janeway asks the Romulan not to talk about the experience with anyone because it may disrupt the space time continuum, but he already stated that he talked to his government about them, and they gave him a data chip from twenty years in the future.

    A new cast member at the Doctor’s office... who cares about the crew member; we want to know how Kes is performing as a nurse! The ignorant crew member will only talk to Kes, not the Doctor, even when directing a question to the Doctor; digital prejudice similar to what Data faced. I like Kes’ outfits, and her attitude. She isn’t afraid to speak her mind! She complains because the Doctor is not treated well. We see the Data argument here: Kes argues that he is alive, self-aware, communicative, and able to learn so he deserves rights too. She argues that he should not be re-programmed because it would be like terminating his life. Janeway responds to Kes’ plea and visits the Doctor. His chief complaint is that people do not turn him off properly or they turn him off without asking. Janeway suggests that they program it so he has control of himself.

    We are slowly being introduced to character’s back-stories. B’Elanna has a dead-beat Dad and she doesn’t get along with her mom. Kim talks to his parents every week, I would make fun of him for whining here, but I talk to my parents on a weekly basis still…
    Janeway’s PJ’s are so much nicer than Picard ever had! Why does she get silk/satin and Picard gets a miss-fitted cloth grey robe?

    Least favorite part: That I started to write that my favorite part was that their messages were sent home; only to find out that they probably didn’t because the Romulan died four years before they were lost in the Delta Quadrant.

    Favorite part: The Doctor puts fear into the crew member who ignored him earlier, and he starts to think of himself as a member of the crew. He even asks Kes for a name…I can’t wait!!!! However, from what I hear I may have to...
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was so nervous as to what this verdict would be that I had to go and get more wine even though it is Korean wine which is quite a contortion to get used to. As long as you don't breath in through your nose while drinking and have something to eat immediately after swallowing it's survivable.

    Anyway, YES Janeway is a badass :D

    And interesting about the medicine bundle. I guess he had the time and desire to get B'Elanna to construct her own medicine bundle to look for her spirit guide but with Janeway he sensed a crisis and let her use his.
     
  19. Collingwood Nick

    Collingwood Nick Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am curious - do you think Janeway played Simcity 4 as a child?
     
  20. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Brooks sucked, that's fine. But I couldn't disagree with you more on Mulgrew, all those "little things she does" are exactly what annoy me. They're all so calculated and actressy, she seems to have trouble acting naturally in many of her scenes and it takes me out of the story, I feel I'm watching an actress portraying a character and not the other way around. That said, I find Mulgrew's performance in early Voyager ten times better. Unfortunately she just keeps getting worse as the show goes on...much like her character.
    Also I really liked Janeway in the Cloud, I wanted the ship to feel like a family but....