My first voyage with Voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Qutluch, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    See I'm thinking he was already degenerating and if they hadn't gotten the boys out of him he would have turned into a five year old. Tuvok would have thought of leaving the ship, he already had control access at his station to stuff. He would have set the ship into some kind of lockdown mode, grabbed a shuttle and fled, probably rigging up a cloaking device while he was at it. Tuvok's smarts and Neelix's desperation.

    But there was no action, only a speech.

    "I have the will to live of two men."

    A lot of good that did him.
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Yes, clearly it's his fault he died because he didn't fight the people he considered his friends to the death.
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    IF your friends announced you needed to die because people they liked better were trapped inside of you what would you do?
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    The only way people would be trapped inside me is if I turned into a cannibal and even then I doubt I'd be able to eat two people in one sitting. ;)
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Or you could become a scientologist.
     
  6. Alpha Flyer

    Alpha Flyer Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Off the Shoulder of Orion
    Paranoid schizophrenia is an option. Albeit not that far removed from teacake's idea...
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    There was an episode of House where this bloke wanted to donate a kidney to a stranger because it's a numbers game, his small sacrifice can help others live. Odd but not insane. Although by House's standards, very insane. House had to prove this insanity to other people. So he convinced the guy donating the kidney that he could donate other organs, and hell why not another kidney... And if he was going to die, he could donate everything and that would help hundreds of people merely for the sacrifice of just him... House can sometimes be so very smug.

    Obsessive compulsive surgery junkie.
     
  8. GSnail

    GSnail Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Location:
    Pancakes
    I saw a dead-fic that started like that. That would have been a way more interesting episode. Much better than the Mr. Perfecty-Perfect-Pants we got. It's like they were saying "Look audience, Tuvix is perfect! Care about him!"

    This ep was a lot less depressing and a lot more creepy when I tried to wrap my mind around the state of having your conciousness taken and used while youre still alive, or not, and then you're in a foreign body, but it's like your child, but they're you, and someone else at the same time, and so you aren't yourself anymore.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I thought he was kind of repulsive. You could make allowances for Neelix because he's a little dim and he's had a difficult life but Tuvix had all of Tuvok's intelligence. Granted there probably wasn't a lot of emotional intelligence there but Tuvok was a pretty keen observer of non-Vulcans and had much less awkwardness than a lot of them.

    And then you get Tuvix, standing too close, trying to hug you, inappropriate compliments.. I bet his hands were always damp.
     
  10. BruntFCA

    BruntFCA Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    A Mile High
    I found Tuvix (the character) to be very creepy. Not sure if it was the make up or the actor but I remember being freaked out when I was a kid.
     
  11. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    Resolutions

    Janeway and Chakotay wake up on a planet in stasis pods because they contracted a disease that the Doctor cannot cure. The Doc suggested that they contact the Vidiians because of their advanced medical technology, but Janeway decides that contacting the Vidiians would not be wise. She hands over command of the Voyager to Tuvok (obviously the only choice and what an awesome Captain he made!)

    The rest of the crew gets together to debate Janeway’s decision, and Tuvok explains that he has already made the decision, and that he will provide them with everything they need (replicator, food, weapons, shelter, a shuttle craft, etc). At least Tuvok has covered all the necessary bases.

    I have found my favorite Janeway hairstyle yet! I love the fancy pony tail! They both look good too, nice choice of costumes! Wow! We almost caught a glimpse of Janeway naked when she was startled by the monkey in the woods! Then Chakotay seems to realize Janeway is only wrapped in a towel and he goes awkwardly back into their home. At this point, I would say Chakotay is definitely looking for a little something, but I don’t think Janeway is yet. In one of the next scenes where Chakotay is in his billowy white top and Janeway in her red dress you feel the sexual tension again. I like that; it is very real. Also, I love the costumes; how Robin Hood and Maid Marian!

    Meanwhile, back on the ship Kim actually grows a pair and challenges Tuvok on the bridge. He said what everyone was thinking, but he is the only one who would say it or express his concern over Janeway and their lack of action. Tuvok temporarily kicks him off the bridge, but Kim goes back to Tuvok’s quarters to argue that they should help Janeway. Tuvok is in an awesome purple PJ set; big fan! Tuvok pulls off purple! He has some weird candles with people holding hands though…it seemed a little odd for a Vulcan….I would have expected something plainer.

    While Janeway is getting her bugs to study a huge storm blows in with green lightning. Chakotay (very romantically) went off into the woods to find her and makes sure that she returns safely. Chakotay holds Janeway under a table as protection while the plasma storm was wreaking havoc on their camp. Their physical actions toward each other seem to be getting more personal…. Once Janeway gave up her research and hope of getting off the planet I have to assume that they became more than friends….I mean Chakotay built her a bathtub!

    Kes goes to Tuvok and gently explains that he is responsible, as Captain, for both the physical and emotional well-being of the crew. After meeting with a group of worried crewman Tuvok decides to call the Vidiians for help, which they responded favorably to and they had a cure!! They lied, attach Voyager, the Doctor is contacted with their Doctor (who was aided by the Voyager Doctor in the earlier episode) and Tuvok arranges to briefly drop the shields so they can beam in the cure.

    Back on the planet Janeway and Chakotay are cleaning up and there is another touching moment when Chakotay is rubbing Janeway’s shoulders. I get the impression that Janeway would like more with Chakotay, but she is fighting it. Plus, Chakotay kind of killed the mood with the comments about his mother…. When he tells Janeway the Angry Warrior story he is basically professing his love through a Native American story-ballad, and Janeway fell for it. She finally let him in; I appreciate the subtle movements in this episode; beyond holding hands they rub thumbs too just like people in love! They even started calling the house their home. I think Chakotay already had feelings for the Captain, and I think Janeway was simply, for the first time, allowing herself to let go and feel something. It was kind of sad when Tuvok called with their rescue. You see Chakotay talk a gulp of air with a true expression of sadness on his face. He knew it was over right there.

    Favorite part: The whole episode. I am a big fan. Beltran actually gets a chance to act, and he is obviously more comfortable with the role of leading man, and we get to see Janeway as Janeway; not the Captain! They have great clothes, props, etc. The acting was superb and there were many subtle physical actions that really spiced up the scenes. It was also an interesting follow up to Tuvix. In Tuvix Janeway kind of gives in to her emotions when she decides to save Tuvok and Neelix and in this episode Tuvok does the same. It was an emotional decision to some degree. It may have been a bit of a common sense, based on the crews’ well-being mumbo jumbo, but in the end it was based on a feeling. He disobeyed; Tuvok disobeyed Janeway in order to save her and Chakotay even though he was rather certain they were falling into a trap. Is Tuvok’s decision correct, or by the same arguments did he fail even though it resulted in a happy ending—(for everyone but Chakotay).

    Least favorite part: I have questions: If Voyager was made to be a generational ship can Janeway fraternize with senior staff or is she still off limits? What are the relationship rules on a generational ship?
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Ah the holy grail episode for the Janeway/Chakotay fans. Chakotay seemed very interested in this episode, even to the point of almost being life like. I was half expecting them to wake up in an alternate universe or holodeck or something... that's usually what happens when Chakotay starts acting almost human. Janeway seemed reluctant and frankly more interested in the monkey than Chakotay. Honestly I only saw her going along with the romance bit with resignation and lack of options. This was also the one time Chakotay uses the Indian story routine without it annoying me. the "beautiful woman" capturing the "angry warrior" who then devotes himself to her also fits my theory that Janeway had Chakotay castrated after "Caretaker." He definitely lost all pep, zeal and life after that episode. :p

    I would have found the ship board drama a lot more interesting if they did it in a manner that wasn't so obvious they'd find the cure/come back. Though I do find it utterly hilarious that even under Captain Tuvok, Kim remains the captain's designated whipping boy. Honestly I would have liked to see Tuvok in charge for more than just this episode. He pulls it off well.

    But Voyager as always blandly pushes the reset button and it all may as well not have happened. I personally would have liked it if they stretched this situation out for a few episodes. Heck if they tied this into the Kazon spy arc, this could have been very fulfilling. Seska and Culluh learn of this, get the cure from the Viidians themselves and kidnap Janeway and Chakotay. They ransom them to Voyager, forcing them into an ambush and the spy is found out during this. We'd get to see a more dramatic conclusion to the Kazon arc that makes a bit more sense, more tense material for Janeway and Chakotay and a hard choice for Captain Tuvok. Could've been good stuff if they just thought about how their episodes would spin together.
     
  13. Alpha Flyer

    Alpha Flyer Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Off the Shoulder of Orion
    Yep, the holy grail of J/Cers indeed. For me it was the death knell of any possible Janeway/Chakotay future. So here they are, the only people on the planet, and he has to go metaphorical in order to signal his intentions? Angry Warrior my ass. Whatever happened to the guy who ran his own ship of outlaws, against impossible odds and an implacable enemy? Oh yeah -- he agreed behind the scenes to merge his crew with hers and be second fiddle, and the only time we get another glimpse is when he decks Dalby in "Learning Curve". The man's a pussy-footer who would bore Janeway to death inside a week. Me, I'd go with the monkey.
     
  14. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    I couldn't agree more. This would have been a great theme for a mini-arc! I too loved Tuvok as Captain. I wish we could have seen him in action from the point of view of the crew (not when they were pissed at him because of the Janeway/Vidiian decision, but under normal circumstances).
     
  15. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
    I liked Chakotay here, although I agree that it was the death knell for him. His character seemed to regain that confidence he once had and he was more Marquis-like. He was in charge. Even his body posture showed confidence (knee up, leaning into Janeway/holding her under the table, saving her in the forest, etc.). Although, the whole mom comment kind of killed the one scene. I though it was hot personally, and I kind of felt sorry for him in the end.
     
  16. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Location:
    2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
    Angry Warrior: gag me. Apparently they didn't beam down the lock box in which Janeway is holding Chakotay's testicles with the supplies.

    I find absolutely nothing romantic about the Angry Warrior tale: he's saying that his sole function in life is to make her happy. No relationship can stand the strain of that. It's unhealthy.

    Putting a big ol' Indian bow on the package makes it worse.

    My least favorite episode of Voyager.
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    ^

    You mean Tom and Janeway turning into lizards and making babies is better? ;)
     
  18. Qutluch

    Qutluch Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Location:
    ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha

    :) Yup! :)
     
  19. Alpha Flyer

    Alpha Flyer Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Off the Shoulder of Orion
    Absolutely. (a) They had an excuse. When you cross an imaginary threshold, shit happens. Plus, (b) having sex and making babies (in whatever form) beats telling stories of how you'd LIKE things to be, just because you don't have the guts to DO them. As a lizard, a monkey, or whatever... :lol:
     
  20. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Location:
    2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
    Yep.

    At least that one had Tom Paris, Beloved Mutant. ;)
     

Share This Page