Much love to Kes

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by laika, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    You mean like how they were going to let Wang go?

    There was a window that allowed them to replace Wang with Ryan.

    Hey?

    Was Wang actually fired?

    Or where they waiting till Scorpion II or "The gift" to let him go, because what with giving him 8472 AIDs, Wang can't have been under any delusions that they were within seconds of turning off his golden shower.

    So either they told Garret to pretend that he hadn't been fired, after the suits upstairs changed Berman's mind, or Jennifer was removed in the same way, and at the same time as the killshot which they had already lined up Wang well past when it was polite.

    Would Oswald have still taken the shot if at the last second that JLK and LBJ had had their social agendas switched, and it was the vice president sailing towards the grassy knoll on that fateful day in November 1963?
     
  2. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    No, because no one remembers your name forever if you only assassinate a vice president.

    And I don't think this dearly beloved topic would be so dearly beloved here if it was Wang who got the axe.
     
  3. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    An episode takes 14hrs to film and then goes into two to three week post production(sometimes longer) to add all the sound effects, editing and special EFX.(this is why much of the show is out of production order) By the time that ep. aires(Scorpion) the actors are returning from a 2 month hiatus. Plenty of time to renegotiate the 3 year contract that they all signed with their agent. So by the time production starts again, that actor knew if they were staying or going.
    They did the same thing with Mulgrew at the end of Equinox pt1., so it's not like we don't know or its some type of conspiracy as folks keep trying to imply. What kind of conspiracy can there be to simply letting someone go? TPTB have given reasons for letting Jen go, if the fans can't accept it then how does that make the TPTB the ones creating conspiracy as if it was personal?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  4. Warp Coil

    Warp Coil Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    MD, USA
    I really liked Kes. I thought that she was a good, if somewhat underdeveloped, character who could have been put to better use if the writers had come up with a plan for her. The Kes/Doctor relationship is possibly my favorite from the entire series. I think that there was a ton of romantic potential for them down the road had Kes remained on the series. The very concept of a character with a seven-year life span comes with a lot of built-in story potential but the writers didn't really take advantage of it. By the final season, Kes would be an old woman and there would've been great opportunity to deal with her mortality (perhaps Kes dies just as Voyager returns to earth... something very bittersweet like that to add a little emotional punch). I also agree with others who think that Kes and Seven of Nine could've had an interesting relationship.

    I do think that Seven was an interesting character, and I really don't have an issue with her joining the cast. However, I think that there would've been room for Jennifer Lien to remain on the series, as well. I personally think that Neelix had outlives his usefulness as a character by season 4 and could've been written out, but he was their token weird alien (he had the most makeup prosthetics) and they probably wanted to keep him around for that reason alone. I really think that the best option would have been to just bump someone to recurring - either Garrett Wang, Ethan Phillips or Jennifer Lien. Use them maybe about a dozen times a season. Their names are out of the opening credits and they aren't as expensive (since they aren't a series regular) but they still get to be a part of the series and contribute.
     
  5. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Exactly.

    I doubt very much there'd be a "Poor Garrett Wang got let go and fell into depression" post anywhere here, as if he is any less a person that Jen Lien is.
     
  6. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    It's because Kes was a frakking puppy.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Read his twitter feed and say that again.
     
  8. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    You DON'T.

    Say it aint so.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I don't.

    Twitter is a young persons game.
     
  10. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Jennifer was probably lucky in a way. If she'd lasted through the entire run, and the Doctor hadn't found some way to extend the 9-year lifespan, she might have spent the entire 7th season wearing old age make-up.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    She already had the early morning chair for her ears, until her allergies got bad.
     
  12. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Wang's FB and con talks tell enough of a story :lol:

    (and it was more about Wang than twitter.. though I'm obviously guilty of the former)

    But I still think Harry Kim is cute.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Garret = Kim + 20 miles of broken road.
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    He looked fine when I saw him about a year ago.

    He does believe in aliens, Area 51 and government conspiracies though..
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Fine isn't one of the world's top 50.
     
  16. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Yet many aspire to it.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    You still aspire?

    Wow.

    Oh?

    You do understanding that aspiration is different from perspiration, right?
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    In the middle of the night it's all the fucking same.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    But that's the definition of giving up which I am all about!
     
  20. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    What I've been told from different sources, at least one of them what I consider reliable, it came as a surprise for Jennifer that she would be dumped. Now, I don't have the exact data or details when she was told that she was no longer a member of the cast but it must have been somewhere between the filming of season 3 ended and the filming of season 4 started. What I do know from different sources is that she was very depressed during the filming of "The Gift" and that the other actors weren't happy over the situation either.

    I also read somewhere, I think it was mentioned on this forum that Ethan Phillips was so sure about being axed so that they actually planned a goodbye party for him. Obviously the decision about who they were going to axe came at a late point in the preparations for season 4. As for contracts or so, I remember a case when a certain hockey player didn't get his contract re-newed until one or two days before the series started.

    The point is that the reasons they gave us were vague and changed all the time. First it was "Jennifer left of her own free will", then it became "oh we do actually axe her because we weren't able to come up with stories for the character", all that spiced with comments about how "Seven saved the show". Not to mention the wonderful word "mutual agreement" which is always used when there is foul play.

    When Sasha Alexander left NCIS, there were clear statements from both the producers and the actress herself why she was leaving. (She left because her family lives in Europe and she couldn't stand to be away from them for such long periods). All playing with open cards, no BS about writers not able to write for the character or "mutual agreement". Honestly, I hated and still dislike that they killed off Kate (her character), they could have let her leave on some other mission or so. But they were at least honest.

    If Wang had been axed instead of Lien, they would probably have been some angry Kim fans somewhere ranting about it. ;)