Mr. Spock instead of Sir or Commander

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Admiral_Young, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting observation. I do recall Capt. Jellico making a point to be on a first-name basis with his officers, but not encouraging the opposite, in Chain of Command. Guess that's part of the "do as I do, not as I say" philosophy of management. -- RR
     
  2. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Who told you 13?

    For one, there is only ever ONE "Air Wing" on a Carrier.

    And two, no "division" would ever be led by a Captain. Department, yes. Division, no.

    I think the most 0-6 Captains we ever had onboard at one time (normally assigned personnel doing their normally assigned jobs, no visitors or anything) was maybe 7.

    13 is just completely unrealistic.
     
  3. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Not only that, it's bad luck! And isn't saying "O-6 Captain" redundant? In the Navy, an O-6 is a full Captain, yes? Or do you mean to distinguish between O-6s and maybe O-5s who are Commanders but might be captains/c.o.'s on other ships? -- RR
     
  4. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Or to differentiate from the other services O-3 captains....
     
  5. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I suppose one could argue that the uniqueness of their situation -- not merely being on an assignment together but being together as an extended family for a potentially 70 year journey -- would naturally breed less formality and more familiarity than would be the norm, even though they had agreed to generally retain Starfleet standards of operation.
     
  6. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This.

    Navy ships also can have Marines aboard. A Marine Captain is much different than a Navy Captain.

    Also, I say "O-6 Captain" to differentiate between the rank of Captain and the position of Commanding Officer.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There is also a 'officer of the deck', a OD, who the helmsman would report to if the skipper was in a conference.

    I took the number of thirteen captains from a fact book titled "Carrier", the author was aboard the 'U.S.S. John F. Kennedy', at the time of that cruise there were thirteen naval officers on board with the rate of captain.

    I should of used squadron, not wing. My bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2009
  8. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wow I never meant for this to turn into a technical discussion about ranks. Just why everyone on the Enterprise addresses Spock "Mister" all the time. Let's get back on track here people. Or perhaps the thread has run it's course since we haven't been able to come to a consensus.
     
  9. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The OOD is ALWAYS on the bridge while underway, and is the officer responsible to the Captain for the whole ship while on his watch.

    There's no such thing on a carrier as "Helmsman" in any case. That would be the "Conning Officer".

    And what's an "OD"?

    I don't doubt the personal experience of the author, but if there 13 Captains on the ship, odds are that five of them were visiting from other ships in the Group.

    No, that wouldn't have worked either, since squadrons are commanded by Commanders, not Captains.
     
  10. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Well, the Kennedy was decommissioned two years ago, so who knows what was going on.

    I'm still confused why they never refit that boat with a nuclear reactor.
     
  11. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They learned their lesson from Enterprise. It's best to build Nuke ships from the ground up.
     
  12. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Why? Just asking. -- RR
     
  13. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is from: WWW.NAVY.MIL .....a pretty cool site.

    US Navy Today
    September 11, 2009

    Small Texas Town Gives Abe Two Helmsmen
    Story Number: NNS021218-01
    Release Date: 12/18/2002 7:28:00 AMBy Journalist 3rd Class Heather Stanley,
    USS Abraham Lincoln Public Affairs

    ABOARD USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, At Sea (NNS) -- Quartermaster Seaman Jeremy West joined the Navy to see what the world outside of his small hometown of Borger, Texas, had to offer.

    ....Culwell is now a master helmsman - qualified to Culwell is now a master helmsman - qualified to drive the ship in restricted evolutions like underway replenishments and pulling into ports. West is training to do the same.

    Culwell wants to use his helmsman qualification for future experience. “I wanted to be a master helmsman because I want to drive ships for the Merchant Marines when I get out of the Navy, and I can get the experience here,” said Culwell.

    West, who works on the bridge as a quartermaster, said it was watching other master helmsman that made him decide to get qualified.

    “(Quartermaster 3rd Class Christopher) Shans is the best driver on the ship,” said West. “I learned watching him drive that it is very challenging work, and you get a lot of respect for it.”
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  14. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Helmsman is a qualification, not a position.
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The internet's a wonderful thing -- Love getting my facts straight.
     
  16. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, missed this the first time around.

    Enterprise was designed with old school boiler-tech in mind. Basically they designed and built a steam boiler ship with eight submarine reactor sized reactors shoe-horned in.

    Enterprise's engineering plant is an abortion for this reason.

    Nimitz was actually designed from the ground up with Nuke-this and Nuke-that in mind. A much better design, IMHO.

    Yeah, it can be pretty confusing. Not everything about the military makes the most sense. Luckily you have vets like me who've been there and done that to help explain it for you! :techman:
     
  17. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sweetheart, the navy calls the people in that position helmsmen. The kids in the official navy press release was refered to as either master helmsman or by his rate of quartermaster or quartermaster third class.

    If you insist on "conning officer", then back it up with something beyond a simple personal statement.
     
  18. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, Chaos is just a cranky old swabbo! Pay him no heed!

    I have another possible reason why Spock was most often called "Mister," or just "sir": That's the way he preferred it!

    Bear with me here. I got the idea from an early novel, The Entropy Effect, where Spock makes an announcement to the crew. It was an extremely serious announcement, so he referred to himself as "Commander Spock."

    Uhura finds it out of character, and remembered that he frequently referred to himself mainly by his positions, either First Officer Spock or Science Officer Spock.

    Based on this, my theory is as Spock was raised Vulcan, he's essentially a pacifist, like other Vulcans. Although he's in Starfleet, he prefers to think of himself by his positions and not his rank, with is too militaristic for his pacifist sensibilities, despite the fact he can use force when logic and the demands of the service require it.

    Just my two cents, people.

    Red Ranger
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I believe earlier both Mr. T and the movie "They call me mister tibbs" were brought up. Both are examples of individuals who insist on being call 'Mister' as a show of respect. Gene Roddenberry's future is far from perfect, Spock is a vulcan in what appears to be a service dominated by (white) humans. There is sexism in TOS, and maybe still some specie-ism too.

    In addition to being an expression of his non-militaristic pacifist believes, mister is a demand for a open show of respect.


    T'Girl
     
  20. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :guffaw:

    :techman: