Mr. Spock instead of Sir or Commander

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Admiral_Young, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Regarding Chapel's rank, it would probably be a good idea to consider her an Ensign during TOS. While her rank is never mentioned or put in braiding during that show, TAS gives her a single Lieutenant braid on her long-sleeved uniform, and confirms this with an ID card spelling "Lieutenant" out'n'loud in "Mudd's Passion". Yet she clearly remains a nurse there.

    Thus, the officer rank shouldn't be argued to have been due to her achieving a Doctor's degree, but should be something she already carried while nurse, most probably in TOS as well as TAS.

    We have met several pipless, enlisted nurses or medtechs in the TNG era where Ensigns stand out clearly due to their collar pips. Yet the prominent head nurse of Dr. Crusher, Nurse Ogawa, was an Ensign.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  2. Doomsday

    Doomsday Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm late to this thread, but I have always wondered about this as well, because sometimes it does seem very informal. This has been a very interesting thread.

    As another instance of what I would consider improper address, I would point out Mr. Styles in BOT.

    At one point he mutters under his breath(regarding the coded Romulan transmission), "...give it to Spock...", and then Captain Kirk made him repeat it.

    Now, granted, Kirk dressed him down publicly, in front of the whole bridge crew, but not for the way he addressed the XO, but for perceived bigotry, assuming a Vulcan should be able to understand a Romulan code, by virtue of race.

    But his dressing down did not appear to be for addressing the XO only by his last name without a Mister or Lt. Commander, or anything.

    At the very least, he should have been put on report for this, if not relieved of duty, pending a disciplinary hearing.

    Even though I love this ep, I have always questioned why Styles was allowed to remain on duty and not in the brig after the way he was insubordinate.

    In fact, now that I'm typing this, I remember Styles also addressed Mr. Spock simply as "Vulcan" right at the end, when he was manning phaser control, "This time we'll handle things without your help, Vulcan".

    He should have been court-martialed right then and there.

    Walk the plank, Styles!
     
  3. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    There is no reason to believe that a starship crew in the 23rd century has to follow the contemporary protocols of the American military.

    This isn't a historical document.
     
  4. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    I Don't know if this has been mentioned. But in the movies, there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for calling Scotty and Spock "Mister"

    Because they were both Captains, naval tradition is that only the commander of a ship is called captain, anyone else of the same rank is referred to as mister...
     
  5. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    I can remember only a handful of eps where Spock is either called, "Commander," or "Commander Spock." The three that come to mind are Amok Time (Vulcan Space Central asks for him as "Commander Spock"); The Ultimate Computer (Commodore Wesley calls him, "Commander"); and in Let That Be Your Last Battlefield (Bele says, "Are you blind, Commander Spock?" when he makes his comment about why he and Loki are opposed).

    It does seem there's a slight amount of informality in terms of addressing senior officers other than the captain, as most rarely refer to Scotty as Commander Scott.

    Here's another interesting difference. In The Tholian Web, when Spock is in command, eventually Scotty, and I think Chekov, call Spock, "Captain," which of course is naval tradition to refer to the person in command of a ship.

    TNG was more formal. There are only a few times Picard calls Riker, "Mr. Riker," most notably in A Matter of Honor. Everyone else calls Riker, "Commander," which is more appropriate given his status as first officer. Data is often referred to as "Mr. Data," and Data often formally introduces himself as "Lieutenant Commander Data."

    Red Ranger
     
  6. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True, sort of. Not really stuck to much these days.

    Not at all true. No one above the rank of Lt. Commander would ever be called "Mister".
     
  7. bluedana

    bluedana Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Whadda they call you back on Vulcan, boy?"
    "They call me . . .MISTER Spock!"

    (In The Heat of the Night - go rent it.)
     
  8. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not to mention she was promoted to Lieutenant JG near the end of TNG.
     
  9. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It not unusual for aircraft carriers to have up to thirteen officers with the rank of "captain".
    There is only one 'captain of the ship', since everyone on board knows who that is, everyone who is a captain is refered to by correct rank. At least in the U.S. Navy.

    .
     
  10. Agenda

    Agenda Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ya, and that was kreepy.
     
  11. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't want to turn this into a racist thread but could it also have something to do with this? Certainally in the case of Styles outburst perhaps. I don't think the other crew members were racist towards Spock, with the exception of maybe mocking him occasionally about his Vulcan heritage but that was probably meant as ribbing to provoke emotion.
     
  12. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Isn't the captain of an aircraft carrier typically a rear admiral?
     
  13. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    [/QUOTE].....Isn't the captain of an aircraft carrier typically a rear admiral?.....[/QUOTE]


    The captain commands the carrier. The admiral commands the carrier task force, which is the carrier and all the escorts, support ships and usual a submarine. The admiral does this from the carrier, but he isn't directly in command of it.
     
  14. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nimitz did not have anywhere near 13 O-6 Captains when I was aboard, but my Department Head (Reactor Officer) was one of them. And yes, we did call him "Captain Davidson".
     
  15. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On a carrier, how many of the rank of Captain are customary?
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Including the various air wings onboard and the division head who could be captains of that billet/position, I believe it is thirteen.
     
  17. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Y'know, if they all got together on the bridge and, say, the helmsman had to get the attention of the ship's skipper, it might get a tad confusing.
     
  18. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Spock occasionally called Uhura "Miss Uhura." As for why Spock was called "Mister Spock," Amanda stated in "Journey to Babel" and Spock also stated in "This Side of Paradise" that humans are not generally capable of pronouncing the Vulcan family name. It's a compromise so other people don't have to struggle to pronounce a long surname that likely doesn't have many (or any) vowels.

    As for names and ranks, what's with everybody except Janeway being on first-name basis in Voyager? Janeway calls everybody by their first name, no matter if they're on duty or not. And Harry Kim, addressing Tuvok as just "Tuvok" without either "Mister" or his rank...?
     
  19. Duncan MacLeod

    Duncan MacLeod Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not at all. The helmsman probably knows the Captain's name, and is bright enough to use it in this situation. ;)
     
  20. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Also I find it somewhat amusing that Leonard's credited as Mr. Spock on the opening credits as well. Are we making a big deal about this?
     

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