most "wrong" episode...

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by magarity, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just ftr...Kirk would have completly, utterly ignored it. McCoy wouldn't dream of bringing it up, and Spock..might...MIGHT, just for the sake of discussion, bring it up only to be shouted down.

    TNG would have used the 'cry for help' as an excuse to get involved. If Beverly discovered the 'stagnant DNA', she would have ignored it. The crux of the drama would have probably been Picard ordering her to stop* until this case could have been ruled on and Beverly saying her Hippocratic oath supercedes her duty to Starfleet and threatens to resign.

    *and we would have called it the stupidest thing ever. Much like that second season Ep with Data and the little alien girl.

    I'm not using TNG or TOS to make a point, just to say how I think they would have handled it.
     
  2. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also, what about Similitude?

    They create a human being for the expressed purpose of being a living organ bank.
     
  3. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The point of Dear Doctor, and the PD, is to protect members of Starfleet from having to actually make decisions based on their morality. Picard said this in an episode, I think Pen Pals.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Not about morality, its about common sense. It's about actually examining the facts, its about examining what's happening in the here-and-now vs. what might happen a thousand years down the road.

    Even if you completely discount that the Menk seem to be evolving quite well even with Valakian presence... they still interfered by handing the Valakians medicine that would ease their suffering for about a decade. They increased the odds that the Valakians would either find a cure on their own or develop a means of contacting another species that would work with then to create a cure.

    The episode is pure non-sense.
     
  5. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, isn't that another ridiculous part of the episode? They're against "interfering," but they give them medicine which interferes in the diseases natural progression, and they consider it to be fine if they either find the cure on their own or another species helps them find it.


    So... wtf? Either the disease should be let to run its course because "evolution intends it," or it's fine for them to get a cure for it. Instead, Archer and Phlox's attitudes seem to be "it's fine if they die from the plague or if they find a cure themselves or from another species, as long as it's not US HELPING THEM!":wtf: That's... like the least defensible position of any of them.


    It continually baffles me to see that episode listed as one of the best of season 1.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, when you ignore the morality of it, Dear Doctor is a good character piece for Phlox and an excellent spotlinght for John Billingsley. And let's face it, Enterprise season 1 isn't exactly filled with top quality episodes. Seriously, this, Broken Bow, Shadows of P'Jem and Shuttlepod One are really the only top quality episodes of the season.
     
  7. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    i think still defending dear dr at this point and after all thats been said; good luck but thats an insane course of action.
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not denying the morality is flawed, I'm just pointing out why it's among the best of season 1. Which it really is.
     
  9. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It WOULD have been a good character piece for Phlox if the ending didn't make you hate him and want him locked up.

    Seriously, I remember watching the episode for the first time, and getting to the end, and just staring at the screen after it was over, thinking "Seriously?!? Did they really just do that?"
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    It's the first episode that goes into any detail about his relationships with the crew and his background or really any details about him and his race. That makes it a good character piece to me.
     
  11. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Which is a cop out of moral responsibility. By the logic of the Prime Directive, if they came upon one of Hitler's concentration camps, they'd just let it go about it's business based on non-interference of another culture.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I think issues like these are where the Prime Directive is useful. People/societies have to learn some things for themselves. Whooshing in and telling them that it's wrong and pounding the offending party with phaser fire will only work for as long as your sitting in orbit playing babysitter. And will likely only escalate the hate that one party has for another.

    I have always stated there are only two reasons to violate the Prime Directive, extinction level events and to fix prior violations.
     
  13. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not interfering in another culture's development is all well and good, but what does that even mean? The Federation has ambassadors and alliances with various alien races. Shouldn't they cut off all diplomatic ties and go all crazy isolationists similar to the Vorlons?
     
  14. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, because there's a difference between normal diplomatic contact and interference.
     
  15. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Really the Prime Directive is so vague and inconsistently applied, I just often think it's an excuse to give the Federation moral superiority over any given issue. ;)
     
  16. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would add two more: Genocide and slavery.

    If millions of people are murdered for no reason, they're not exactly going to gain the benefits of learning a lesson.

    It's a bit too cynical for Star Trek to say that it only exists to protect us from moral choices. More, it's meant as a moral guideline to benefit from the moral philosophy of the past, like 'Do no harm' and 'Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness'. In the TV show it leads the characters to rather silly moral choices on occasion, but we have every reason to believe that 99 out of 100 times the principle leads them to good decisions.
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    If you include those two, you easily can get led down the path of becoming an occupying power. Certain things folks have to learn on their own.
     
  18. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm going to say this again: I don't have to like what characters in a show or movie decide to do for me to like the show or movie. I think what makes Dear Doctor good is that it dares to do something that we might not like or agree with. And even if we do agree with the decision, we still might not like it. But that doesn't make this episode a bad one.
     
  19. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Picard cited the Prime Directive as to why the Federation didn't intervene in the Cardassian occupation of Bajor. So.... I'd say it does cover genocide and slavery.
     
  20. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Are you sure? Seems like a political matter that doesn't need justifying.

    At one point I had just assumed that Bajor being abandoned was a condidtion of the Cardsassians being caught with their pants down in that TNG two-parter.

    Picard does specifically mention slavery I believe in 'Pen Pals'.

    Slightly related, I just watched "Think Tank" today and Janeway asks Jason Alexander how far they're willing to go, if they have any limits? She asks the question perfectly "Just curious" so there's no moral judgement. He says they won't create weapons of MASS destruction or commit genocide. Janeway doesn't moralize or pass judgement. And waits til she gets back to her ship to comment on it. Perfect.