Mortal Coil… Missed the Mark?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Adm_Hawthorne, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Location:
    2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart

    Naomi's growing up was one of the reasons Neelix decided to leave Voyager. She didn't need him anymore.


    I'm not understanding your religious argument...


    Are you saying people of faith never have crises of faith?
     
  2. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Location:
    Not really sure anymore
    Heck no!

    I'm saying that people with religious beliefs can have a crisis of faith and come out stronger as opposed to coming out atheist. (Although, I recognize it goes both ways.)

    I feel Neelix's character would lend more toward stronger faith than faithlessness.
     
  3. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    Although it was never stated that Kes dumped him because of being over-protective, there were situations in which she did find him too jealous and too over-protective and if the writers had handled their cards right, it would and should have been the reason why she dumped him.

    Personally I find Neelix somewhat neurotic. Don't misunderstand me, I love the character but he did seem to have some problems. His exaggerated ways to help and cheer up people and the whole Moral Officer and Briefing With Neelix things may have been his way to hide his insecurity and being haunted by the terrible memories of having his whole family annihilated. That can also be seen in his relationship with Kes where he obviously was so afraid of losing her that he became over-jealous and over-protective and finally did scare her off.

    But I agree with Adm_Hawthorne that it would have been better to have him have more of a crisis of faith and come out stronger than having him abandon his faith altogether, especially since such a re-evaluation of his beliefs could have made him feel even worse than before. And as we could see in the coming episodes, he didn't change to the better or the worse. A story in which he kept his faith and because of that became stronger would have suited the coming storytelling better than the rather cruel and meaningless (from a storytelling point of view) loss of beliefs that he had in the episode.
     
  4. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Location:
    2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
    Did they actually say he'd abandoned his faith?

    I have a friend who's been going through a crisis of faith for years. He was a minister. Now he's an atheist.

    It happens.
     
  5. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Sam Wildman showed up in time to stop him for killing himself. She didn't act terribly surprised to catch him doing it and she talked him down off that ledge.

    Are you sure nobody was watching him making sure he's ok? ;)
     
  6. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Location:
    Not really sure anymore
    Okay, there was very little evidence on screen that such a thing was happening.

    Of course, as often as we actually saw Sam on screen, I can't help but ask if she's just a figment of our collective imagination. ;)
     
  7. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    True, faith doesn't equal religion. I'm an atheist, so I should know. However, Neelix' faith was very well augmented by the religion he practiced.

    The episode really doesn't say either way. It's just your interpretation that he abandoned his faith. Unfortunately, later episodes don't give a definitive answer to this either.
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Again I disagree.
    Chakotay, Tuvok, Seven, etc. all offered up advice and aid to him. Nobody ignored him but people lives & responsabilities don't stop either. Counciling can only do so much, the only one that can save you is you. Neelix had to come to his own conclusions himself. He had to want to get better. What helped was finding a new purpose in life.
     
  9. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Location:
    Not really sure anymore
    Meh. Maybe I was too busy hoping he'd transport out to the nebula that I lost sight of the helping hands being offered? ;)
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Now that's just plain mean. :lol:
     
  11. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Location:
    Florida Keys
    The word "atheist" should not be capitalized. Atheism is not a belief system although it is a component in some belief systems.

    I'm a Secular Humanist and we do have a faith of sorts that we are fully-equipped to deal with whatever life throws at us. It's more of a humanity as a whole thing than an individual thing though.

    Not all atheists are Secular Humanists of course and some of those who aren't lack the convictions that they (individually or with the help of others) can handle whatever life throws at them. Those either fall to pieces, get a religion or learn to become comfortable with the idea that there is no super-natural power looking out for them.

    People lose faith in their religion all the time. Some never get past mourning what they lost and desperately seeking to regain it while for others, it's like clearing one's head from a fog, an invigorating breath of fresh air. It's only "pointless and cruel" if they are in the former category. Apparently, Lynx can't comprehend that many people are in the latter.

    One problem with this episode though is that it is exactly that: a single episode. Transitioning from a person of religious faith to losing that faith to becoming accepting (even grateful) of that loss is not something that happens overnight.
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Why not, it's a title discription for a group of people and a noun. Therefore I believe it gets captialized.
     
  13. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Location:
    Florida Keys
    Nope. The word "politician" meets your criteria but it is not capitalized. The word "Democrat" is because it refers to the proper name of a specific political party. The word "atheist" is like the word "politician" in that it is a general term. There is no formal institution of atheism as there is of Christianity (fractured though it may be). There couldn't be. Atheism is only about what a person does NOT believe and says nothing about what one DOES believe. For instance, Secular Humanists and Objectivists (Google Ayn Rand) are very far apart philosophically even though both are atheists.
     

Share This Page