More than a normal person...

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Jon1701, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Then shouldn't he have tried to get to Spock himself? After all, Kirk was only visiting because Enterprise had originally been on a training cruise.

    --Sran
     
  2. Jon1701

    Jon1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Something else I also noticed on viewing #474 :devil:

    Look closely at the tactical station behind Spock just after the initial battle with Khan.

    Spock has beamed over to the reliant!

    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0540.jpg
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If I could change one thing in this movie it would be to edit out Amazing Grace.
     
  4. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, it makes sense to have that there. Remember that Spock entered the Reliant's prefix code just moments earlier to lower its shields, so it's possible a schematic of the ship appeared on the tactical display to confirm that the shields were down.

    What's wrong with "Amazing Grace?"

    --Sran
     
  5. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    You have something to say about Scotty's playin' ?

    Nice. I would never have thought of that. Of course, in the real world, it was a mistake, but that's an elegant way to explain it in-universe. :)
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The song makes zero sense being played at the funeral of a Vulcan. What they couldn't find a traditional Vulcan funeral ditty in the database?
     
  7. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    How do you know Spock didn't request such a song in the event of his death? He was half human, after all.

    --Sran
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A christian hymn? That's a huge stretch.
     
  9. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    I agree it's a stretch, but it's not impossible.

    --Sran
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Someone better than me can read the lyrics and tell me what appeal this would have to Spock.

    These are the bogstandard ones, there's a lot more verses but they're usually trimmed to this set:

    Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
    That saved a wretch like me.
    I once was lost but now am found,
    Was blind, but now I see.

    T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
    And Grace, my fears relieved.
    How precious did that Grace appear
    The hour I first believed.

    Through many dangers, toils and snares
    I have already come;
    Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
    and Grace will lead me home.

    When we've been here ten thousand years
    Bright shining as the sun.
    We've no less days to sing God's praise
    Than when we've first begun.


    I always loved that last verse, though it does bring to mind the Organians :lol:
     
  11. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Same here. I've seen FC way too many times to keep count although, enough to wear out 2 VHS tapes.
     
  12. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    But at the funeral of a Starfleet officer ?
     
  13. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's simple. "Amazing Grace" is the only song Scotty knows. ;)

    But really, Kirk also insults Spock during his eulogy so I don't think Spock's wishes were foremost on their minds. It's truly a funeral for those left behind, not the one who left.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A christian hymn? Whatever for? The man wasn't a christian. Would you play Amazing Grace at the funeral of a muslim soldier just because it it was a default funeral song?
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I hated that too. "Most human". Really, get a grip people. IDIC isn't about making everyone more like yourself.
     
  16. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    The trouble with the TWOK funeral is that it's clearly trying to be analogous to a Navy funeral, a burial at sea. I don't think anyone expects it to be the official ceremony, but I would question the logic of firing Spock's body out into space if, somewhere in the back of their minds, they expected to attend a "proper" Vulcan ceremony later on?

    The scene is staged well and is dramatic enough, but it doesn't make a lot of sense.
     
  17. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    That wasn't Kirk's point. His use of the word human had nothing to do with Spock's origin or background. He was speaking of Spock's desire to learn about the universe around him and use his experiences as a means of self-improvement, as well as his dedication to his shipmates and the courage he demonstrated in sacrificing himself to save his crew.

    Each of these attributes- dedication, courage, compassion, curiosity, wonder, and determination- are admirable and represent the finest examples of what it means to be an individual, be that individual human, Vulcan, or otherwise. As Spock's closest friend, Kirk likely knew these things about him long before he died, but he wanted to share with everyone else how much these aspects of Spock's personality meant to him, that he'd never before met anyone who exemplified such values better, and how much he would miss them in Spock's absence.

    He wasn't trying to assert that Spock was just like him. Kirk was trying to make the point that even someone with so many fundamental differences from him could still exhibit qualities that another person could relate to, admire, and even love.

    --Sran
     
  18. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I already answered that: the funeral was Starfleet, not Vulcan.
     
  19. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    What, only in 474? I noticed that around my viewing #200 or so.

    As it was said before, it's because Spock has just tied his computer to Reliant's. Can't be a production mistake since the Enterprise bridge scenes and Reliant's were filmed separatedly in time.

    What took me longer to notice was this picture, and only after HD screencaps came to the internet (I don't do bluray):

    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0435.jpg

    After universal fanwanking and such about how it represented the "defense fields" Saavik energized just before (this theory I read in Shane Johnson's book), it was just a recycled unused prop from ST1 (it seems to indicate the level of Ilia's quarters for the intruder alert).
     
  20. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    You're assuming they didn't need re-shoots. It's personal incredulity on my part, but I find it very hard to believe that when producing the movie, they took the time to change a panel no one would notice (before the 200th viewing, that is) because of some techno-babble, even if the in-universe explanation makes sense.