More Star Wars films announced

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Candlelight, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Gene's office
    Are you basing this on the racial makeup of the Imperial armed forces being practically—if not all—human?

    Don't forget that the Senate was dissolved in ANH.
     
  2. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    EU materials did try to explain the human-centric nature of the Empire as part of a xenophobic, "speciesist" official policy enacted by the Emperor after he took power. He sought to purge as many exotic alien influences from his new regime as possible without damaging its overall effectiveness and power and thus elevated humans and humanoids to the highest positions of power in his New Order.

    Of course none of this is explained in the actual films themselves, as we go from strange-looking aliens all over the place in ROTS to a galaxy ruled by pasty white guys with British accents in ANH twenty years later. One theory is that Palpatine was so angered by the Jedi Order, what it represented and its great diversity of species that he came to associate diversity of species with the despised Jedi philosophy and felt that he could only trust those most like himself: humans and humanoids.
     
  3. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Gene's office
    Certainly all the clones looked alike. Maybe that somehow encouraged a culture of racial preference leading to prejudice in the military, which persisted even after the clones died out.

    I asked what the assumption of species homogeneity in the Empire was based on, because the only Imperial institution we get a good look at is the military. The Senate was dissolved. We only get a glimpse of the Emperor's court, in ROTJ, but they aren't human.
     
  4. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    Yeah, the three main dignitaries (Sim Aloo, Janus Greejatus, Kren Blista-Vanee) are clearly humanoid, but from a different species than the Earthlike humans seen filling the Imperial ranks in the OT. In reference materials they're sometimes referred to as "Coruscanti" but little or nothing else is said about them or their origins.

    And, of course, Grand Admiral Thrawn in the EU is an example of a somewhat exotic alien who rose to great power in the hierarchy of the Imperial military so there were exceptions.
     
  5. flavaflav

    flavaflav Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Location:
    Illadelph
    I've always wondered where this theory comes from about the empire being bigots. Palpatine's advisors are all non-human in the PT. The lack of Empire aliens in the OT I chalk up to time and $ on make-up. The only time I remember bigot stuff thrown around is in the garbage EU, namely the poop Zahn books. Where in canon is this stated? A novelization?
     
  6. PsychoPere

    PsychoPere Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    What do you base "different species than the Earthlike humans" on? I see nothing different about any of the five members of the Inner Circle seen in ROTJ compared to human members of the Imperial Navy.

    Old Databank pages on StarWars.com, by the way, called at least the first two individuals simply "human." Aloo was from Coruscant (and prevailing thought in the current EU is that humans in the GFFA originated on Coruscant), while Greejatus was from Chommel Minor (where he gained prominence / notoriety as an anti-alien politician in the Old Republic).
     
  7. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    See this is the problem. A lot of fans think and are convinced the Emperor's inner circle aren't human. Others don't, and the reference materials are often little help and conflict with one another if you've spent much time with them.

    We need more consistency among the printed reference materials, online sources and the Expanded Universe to keep things a little straighter than they usually are. Growing up I tended to assume the Dignitaries surrounding the Emperor were humanoids and not simply human based on their somewhat paler, more gaunt and exotic appearances but hey, I could be mistaken.

    The important thing? We have action figures of all but one of them, and the other is likely coming in the not-too-distant future. :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Gene's office
    Meh.

    Back when there were only three Star Wars films, given that, on the big screen, the light level in the scene cast the court members' skin as gray as the Emperor's, people assumed that the Emperor and his court were of the same nonhuman race, cf. Coruscanti. Remember, this was the bad old days before CGI, when aliens had to be presented with make up, differences in skin color, and low-tech tricks like that.

    The ultimate origin of Palpatine isn't exactly cleared up in the PT, anyway. Was he human and got scarred, or is his "scarred" skin his true appearance, unveiled? Screen canon doesn't say.

    Making the Emperor's court all human frankly smells like a retcon, but I'll accept it. Han still shot first, though.
     
  9. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    One thing every fan can probably agree on: the Imperial Dignitaries all had cool hats.

    And good point about OT moviemaking tech when it came to aliens. This was 16-22 years before the era of Jar Jar Binks and Sebulba so aliens were often portrayed as humans with slightly different skin tones and by actors with distinctive facial features. Hell, the original Star Trek made an industry out of aliens that were basically human beings with weird looking skin and hair.

    Look at Mr. Homn on TNG. Really tall guy with an interesting face who underwent a mild makeup job before filming. Not a shred of latex nor ounce of CGI.
     
  10. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    My understanding was that Palps was using his powers to retain his age and when injured by Mace's force lightning he released some of that power and it manifested itself with the deformities.

    But I know what you mean... we used to freeze frame VHS tapes of ROTJ and wonder what the hell he was supposed to be under that hood.
     
  11. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    As much as I hated the prequels, I actually would be up for seeing McGregor's Obi-wan again. He did such a good job with the role, and it would be kinda cool to see him in a great, kickass SW movie. Whether on some further adventure on Tattooine or in a flashback to the Clone Wars.

    Hayden's Anakin on the other hand? Not so much.
     
  12. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    The writers and Abrams would have have some sort of on-screen explanation for why Obi-Wan's ghost spent years appearing to Luke as Alec Guinness and then all of a sudden is a generation younger and played by a different actor, but it's the Force and the supernatural. All Obi-Wan has to tell Luke is "this is how I appeared when I was a much younger man in the prime of my life....when your father and I were good friends."

    Then for fun they can use CGI to have Ewan morph into Alec and back. It's a modern Star Wars movie. Wasting CGI on something minor is gonna happen whether Lucas is in charge or not. ;)
     
  13. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Location:
    Land of Enchantment
    If there's one thing everyone should take away as a positive from the PT, it's McGregor's performance.
     
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Gene's office
    I cringe every time I hear him say, "So uncivilized!" It's the script's fault, though.
     
  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    I remember when he was first announced to play the young Obi-Wan around 1997 and thinking: "the Trainspotting guy? How's THAT going to work? He's nothing like Alec Guinness."

    Turns out he did quite a superb job both paying tribute to Guinness as well as forging his own interpretation of the character as a younger man. Ewan and Ian McDiarmid were clearly the best things about the PT.
     
  16. TremblingBluStar

    TremblingBluStar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Location:
    Fort Dodge, IA
    I thought all of the actors did as good a job as possible with the material they were given - except possibly Hayden, whom I have never cared for as an actor. Even in better movies, his voice sounds too flat, and when he does emote it is way over the top.

    Probably in the minority here, but I'd not care to see side stories in the SW universe. Star Wars movies have always been epic, and dealt with galaxy defining events and a movie with a smaller scope simply wouldn't work, IMO.

    Of course, I could be way off. If there were a sufficiently compelling character I wouldn't mind seeing a film focused on him or her. For example, a Han Solo movie when Harrison Ford were in his prime would have been great. But until the new movies come out, we won't know if there will be any characters worth making movies about, and there certainly any in the prequels I'd care to see in their own film.
     
  17. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    I will say, though, I thought he played Obi-wan a little TOO much like Guinness's older version of the character. I have a hard time believing Obi-wan was always that much of a stick in the mud, who was acting like a boring old man even when he was in his 20s and 30s.

    When I watch ANH, I get the impression of someone who actually had much more of a rebellious streak in him once, and was maybe even a bit of a smartass like Han.

    I just never imagined the Jedi would all end up being as incredibly serious and dull as Lucas eventually made them.
     
  18. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Location:
    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    Yeah, but that was going by the military and outside of Jedi were there really that many if any aliens shown in it in the PT?

    Even in the Clone Wars series which is set before the Empire I only recall a grand total of one nonhuman member of the Republic military who wasn't a Jedi shown.
     
  19. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    At the North Pole with cooleddie74
    It's all a bit confusing at times, and it's not helped by the lack of advanced prosthetics and CGI creatures in the original film (not counting the Special Edition additions made in 1997) that make the prequels seem more abundant with non-human life forms than the Original Trilogy could afford to show.

    Plus, as mentioned before some of the reference materials make Palpatine's New Order seem openly hostile to non-human races and imply that campaigns of discrimination and even enslavement (see the Wookiees) were launched during his reign as Emperor. Yet on the other hand clearly alien characters like Thrawn achieve lofty positions of power and respect within the Empire so Palpatine's campaign of prejudice and discrimination can't have been too extensive.

    It's like I said, it's a bit of a mess that's not well explained and to the extent that it is there are contradictions.
     
  20. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Location:
    California
    FWIW, Wookieepedia lists all three of those individuals as "Human". Though I've never read any EU books, and their names weren't mentioned on screen, so I had no idea who any of them were.