Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by StCoop, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think Amy was stainless though, from her perspective it did happen. she remembers killing her, so from Amy's perspective the guilt is very real. She mivght be able to rationally tell herself it didn't happen, and she might even beleive that on occasion, but if nothing else she knows that in certain circumstances she's capable of cold blooded murder. I don't think that's something someone just "gets over" because it didn't really happen.
     
  2. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Series 6 finale is underwhelming and unmemorable, this is only further highlighted by Series 5 and 7 having the best of the modern finales.
     
  3. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, I think Series 4 had the final modern finale, followed by the first series, and then MAYBE the fifth series, depending my moods on End of Time at a given time.
     
  4. Konata Izumi

    Konata Izumi Commander Red Shirt

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    The meaningless spectacle though, I always liked how it fits with the rest of the series, how in the first episode things are small and very grave, in the middle one things escalate but there is a bit more hope, and in the last one, things have escalated so far and there is no meaning.

    I don't know how you can keep that, but add more drama to the single episode. I think it's actually an episode better remembered than actually watched. But I think that about anything?

    Also going back to where this started, Kovarian's just some jihad person. She's just told things.
     
  5. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    First, Amy didn't kill Kovarian, the Silence did with their booby-trapped eyepatches. Amy just fixed Kovarians', since it fell off.

    Secondly, at the time, Amy only remembered bits of the "real" timeline. But in the episode, she was fighting the Silence and Kovarian for a while. Kovarian was the enemy.

    That Amy remembered that aborted timeline is unfortunate, but it did not happen. What she has to realize, if she hasn't yet, is that it was part of that reality and part of her war.
     
  6. Konata Izumi

    Konata Izumi Commander Red Shirt

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    Though now I start remembering all the bits like Amy in the train, and they all tell the immediate story just fine? The Doctor's telling a yarn, Amy sees sense, and they all shoot at each other, and there was something about stars wanting to help, but they had to.. confess their love instead?
     
  7. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, the biggest thing is that she remembers that evil feeling/lust she felt to kill her and the evil satisfaction of having done it. Have you never had a dream that you felt guilty about when you woke up or had your lover wake up pissed at you and finally find out it was from something you did in a dream they had last night? In Amy's case, it's that amped up, because she actually had control of "the Dream" killing and hateful lust and didn't know it would be rewritten, typically in actual dreams, you're just along for the ride, you don't really control your reactions much.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's disingenuous. It's like saying that if someone's nearly climbed out of a pit of poisonous vipers and you push them back in, you're blameless for their death. Amy chose to take an action that she knew would cause Kovarian's death. She acted with intent, and thus her action would be defined as murder under UK law. I don't think a self-defense exception would apply, since she was not in direct danger from Kovarian. It was overtly an act of revenge.
     
  9. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    They were at war.
     
  10. Konata Izumi

    Konata Izumi Commander Red Shirt

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    ^That makes everything fine then!
     
  11. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And someone who goes back to a life that's not at war, isn't going to look back at the experience fondly, look at the rest of Amy's Character Arc, she'd never do something like that, it's likely to disgust her to think back on the glee she felt rubbing Kovarian's face in the feces as she feared her death
     
  12. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    But the Amy that "helped" Kovarian with her loose eyepatch, in that timeline lived thru that minute for years at war with the Silence and Kovarian. She was a different (Army Officer?) in this episode. Different experiences.
     
  13. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    So, now if the (new) Doctor runs into Donna, will she for some reason remember the Doctor's face from Pompeii? :)
     
  14. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^But hasn't she forgotten everything anyway?

    More to the point, will the Doctor remember it when he looks in a mirror?!
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Nobody ever pointed out Amy Pond's resemblance to the Soothsayer. Or the Sixth Doctor's resemblance to Maxil. Or Morganna's resemblance to Sara Kingdom and Princess Joanna. Or the Brigadier's resemblance to Bret Vyon. Or Steven Taylor's resemblance to a different character in the exact same serial.

    There have only been a couple of exceptions to that rule. Romana II was explicitly stated to have based her new look on Princess Astra, because Astra had appeared in the immediately previous serial. And Martha Jones mentioned her cousin Adeola from the previous season's finale; proximity may have been a factor there as well.
     
  16. Wereghost

    Wereghost Part-time poltergeist Commodore

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    I've been wondering if Jark Harkness would do a double-take if he ever met the new Doctor. Not that it's likely to ever happen, of course.
     
  17. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Something just occurred to me. It's not that strange that the 12th Doctor happens to look a lot like Frobisher or that Roman guy. After all, there were FOUR separate instances on the classic series of one of the current main characters running into his exact doppleganger without any explanation for that whatsoever (at least, not as far as I recall). The Abbot of Amboise looks exactly like the 1st Doctor in "The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve." Salamander looks just like the 2nd Doctor in "The Enemy of the World." Romana looks just like the alien princess in "The Androids of Tara." And Nyssa looks just like some random aristocrat from the 1920s in "Black Orchid."

    I was just wondering: We know that the Doctor, River, Amy, & Rory all remember what happened. Do you suppose anyone else does? Do you suppose Winston Churchill woke up one morning and remembered having the strangest dream about lizard doctors and the Doctor with a rubbish beard?

    And how much of what didn't happen REALLY didn't happen? I don't recall anyone who died in the episode who came back later once the universe was restored. Is it possible that, while most of the effects of that timeline can no longer be seen because the causes no longer make any sense, that nevertheless some things really did happen, even if there's no plausible room for them to have actually happened? We're talking Back to the Future, Part II rules here. Suppose, when the Doctor & River kissed, they caused time to stop collapsing but the universe instantaneously transformed around all of the people in it. So everyone was put back in their proper places as if it never happened but effects on the people are still visible. So, just as Amy & Rory's memories were unaltered, could Madame Kovarian still be dead somewhere?

    Since so much of Smith's era has been about the Doctor's imminent death--not just his regeneration but his actual death--I think it would be interesting if, ironically, the Doctor spends the entire Christmas special thinking that he's finally out of the woods, only for his regeneration to come as a complete surprise.

    Personally, I didn't mind Tennant's final line. But I was a bit annoyed by the victory lap of revisiting all of his companions at the end. I also was somewhat irked by the fact that, it almost felt like RTD was unintentionally undermining his successor by portraying Tennant's regeneration as the total-freakin'-end-of-the-world. Particularly when Eccleston spent most of his last few moments reassuring Rose, and by extension the audience, that everything was going to be OK and that he's still basically the same guy.
     
  18. Konata Izumi

    Konata Izumi Commander Red Shirt

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    I wish Moffat would decide this is his last season and use that knowledge to go crazy with the evilness.

    A clearer, more concise evil Doctor series would enhance the last three series' vague anti-violence arc greatly.

    Make it so dark you can't see anything.
     
  19. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry anti-violence?
     
  20. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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