Moffat Talks 13th, sorry, 12th Doctor

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by StCoop, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Admiral

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    More excited than ever. Bring it!
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No, not really. Like I said, the differences among the past three Doctors have been minor compared to the differences between consecutive Doctors in the original series. They've all been relatively young, good-looking, and manic with a mix of brooding and comic attributes; the differences have been more or less shifts in emphasis. It's nothing like the shock Ben and Polly went through when the Doctor they knew as a crochety, proud old gentleman turned into a feckless, Chaplinesque eccentric, or what Sarah Jane and the Brigadier had to cope with when the elegant, mature, authoritative Doctor they knew turned into a madcap iconoclast spouting nonsense, or what Peri faced when the gentle, sensitive young Doctor she knew turned into a bombastic, aggressive, unstable egomaniac who tried to strangle her within minutes of his regeneration.
     
  3. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    I’m amused that Moffat makes specific reference to Tom, yet people are seeing Colin in the description. Surely what Moffat is saying is that Capldi will be very different to Smith, and might not be as instantly engaging, which I think is likely given the difference in the actors. I think the only thing that worries me is that he’s putting a lot on Clara’s shoulders. Sarah Jane and the Brigadier were well established characters, whereas I feel we still haven’t seen the real Clara.

    For me the trouble with Six is not that he wasn’t like the other Doctors, it was that he seemed to take all the somewhat negative aspects of them and dial it up to 11 with no real redeeming features.

    He was cantankerous, well so was Davison, Hartnell and others, but with Five his cantankerous was offset by a gentle nature and the fact that he so often didn’t seem in control of the situation, he was never arrogant, or if he was he never seemed to really believe he was the smartest man in the room.

    By contrast Six was arrogant in the extreme, and whilst you could say other Doctors had been (take Pertwee) often this was offset somewhat. Pertwee could be arrogant and cantankerous but he was also quite avuncular and noble, for me Six just didn’t have any positive points to hang onto.

    Given Capaldi’s era as a fan I can see him being more like Pertwee than Colin. Much as I love Smith I am looking forward to a different direction.

    Allyn, I never considered that Nine and Five were similar before, but what you say makes a lot of sense. I still like the “Coward” line, because of the context, he isn’t so much saying he’s a coward as he won’t commit genocide…and actually maybe he didn’t, maybe it was Hurt? Nine’s comment about “Coward, every time.” Might make more sense in that context.
     
  4. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I could see where they were going with Colin's Doctor. Make him initially scary then more likeable as time went on. Unfortunately when they came up with the idea, nobody foresaw the upcoming nonsense with Michael Grade.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to a less silly Doctor.
     
  5. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    I always took the "Coward" line not as a rewrite of the character, but as a statement that if he has the option of not commiting genocide, he'd always take it. It also took guts to take out both the Time Lords and the Daleks in the Time War, so being a coward is the opposite of that - and its the culmination of his development in that season, because he might not have been as reluctant at the start of it.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I listened to Big Finish 123 the other day, where Benny (Summerfield), a former companion of Seven meets Eight for the first time and they're running and hiding from the bad guns, and the conversation went like this...

    "So what's your plan?"

    "Plan? What plan?"

    "Your plan."

    "I don't have a plan."

    "But... You always have a plan."

    "Not this time, I'm completely in the dark."
     
  7. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    I think you need to go back and rewatch the nine minute '06 review of the tenth Doctor, Rose was quite taken aback by the new tenth Doctor. And really Tennant was a more active Doctor than Ecclston's rather brooding and condescending Doctor.
     
  8. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    That's an unfair assessment of the Sixth Doctor because--like all Doctors--he was still a champion of good when all was said and done. Sure, he had a rough start but that was by design. Towards the end of his run, the Sixth Doctor had mellowed out quite a lot (I think that was also by design).

    I think the Sixth Doctor was a reminder to viewers that he was an alien, a Time Lord, and this version of the Doctor had a more objective view towards humans than previous incarnations. That may come across as arrogant to some, but it's a trait that's common to every incarnation of the Doctor to varying degrees. With the Sixth Doctor, it was sort of amplified by the fact he didn't care what people thought of him too much, but even this was toned down over time with Peri and Mel.
     
  9. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I love the Sixth Doctor, and respected how little he cared for what people thought of him. He dressed how he liked, and said what he liked. I really responded to that.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It wasn't about how abrasive Sixy was, it was Peri... She'd slouch, look down ashamed, lower her voice, apologise in slow motion, they look up with cow eyes.

    1 part bad acting, 3 parts picking on a moron.
     
  11. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought Peri was very sure of herself, and argued against The Doctor all the time?

    I also think Bryant's performance was good.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I watched the entire 6/Peri run 2 weeks ago.

    It was just this thing Nicola did.

    Six would yell at her, and then she would act afraid and back-pedal like he was going to choke her again.
     
  13. StCoop

    StCoop Commodore Commodore

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    The problem for the Sixth Doctor is that it didn't matter what the intentions for the character were since the end result was someone a large part of the audience didn't like. (And whom the stupider elements still blame for the faults of his time; as if he somehow was responsible for everything from the scripts to the studio lights being turned up far too bright to generate any atmosphere.)

    Colin Baker has in fact become my favourite Classic Series Doctor but that's purely down to Big Finish giving him a version of Sixey to play that's actually likable. (While still being bombastic and a bit of a know-it-all.) Just listen to "The Wrong Doctors" where he gets to play both versions and you'll hear the difference. (Actually listen to it regardless, it's bloody brilliant.)
     
  14. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Along those lines, I've occasionally wondered quite how, and when, Benton found out/was told/realised that the tall, arrogant chap working as the Brig's scientific adviser was the same person as the short, funny chap he'd met in passing during the International Electromatix business, not just someone else with the same call sign/codename.
    Must have been a bit of an eye-opener, possibly explaining why nothing ever shocks him again, and why he's far more of UNIT's inner circle than his rank would dictate.
     
  15. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    The audience at the time were changing channels to watch The A-Team, it was IMO a bad decision to change the format of Doctor Who at that point in time. And really the sixth and seventh Doctors should have been thought out a bit more beforehand. And at least to my mind it takes more than one season for the writers to understand the new Dcotor and write good stories for him.
     
  16. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The emphasis on being difficult, particulary on the companion, doesn't sound like Tom at all, that's definitely more Colin.

    I agree with that, particularly at the beginning. I did rewatch all of Colin's stories lately, and I found them better than I remembered. However, for the most part, they still weren't top notch Doctor Who. But, my appreciation for Colin's Doctor did increase.

    I just don't think we need to revisit that style. Moffat can make 12 "difficult," but he still needs other obvious redeeming characteristics that offset it.

    I hope you're right. If you are, it'll all be good! And, agree about the need for changed. Loved Smith, but a very different type of Doctor about now would be perfect.

    Mr Awe
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Benton was always a perceptive fellow. He tended to figure things out a step or two ahead of the Brigadier and have less trouble accepting them. So if the Brig could understand that the two Doctors were the same man, Benton would have no trouble with it.
     
  18. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Matter of fact, this was shown in The Three Doctors, when The Brig, faced with both 2 and 3 together, was still a step or two behind Benton in "Getting it", LOL
     
  19. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    There's more from the DWM article.

     
  20. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ In the end, if Colin's Doctor teaches us anything, it's that each incarnation has to have likeable characterstics. It's not enough that the Doctor does good. He also has to be likeable to some degree.

    I hope they don't go too far from the "accessible" angle. Sure, a little bit difficult is fine. All the Doctors did that but they were also still likeable to the general public.

    Mr Awe