MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by Mr. Laser Beam, Oct 31, 2013.

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  1. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, Choke-ROID has filed suit against everyone but my mother...

    What was illegal about acquiring the evidence? "Smearing"???? I believe A-Rod did all the public whining etc before 60 minutes came out. They actually waited until the ruling.

    If the MLB Union has lost some "teeth" when come to protecting lying scumbag PED users then so be it.

    The fact remains, A-Rod chose not to defend himself at his own arbitration hearing. He had the opportunity, but chose to his the radio circuit.

    He's a lying sack of $hit. He lied back in 2003 and never stopped. This is ALL about him clinging to some stupid notion that he will be in the hall of fame some day.

    No tears shed here for this POS. None.

    I hope he spend 100 million and loses.

    I don't care that he was the 4th best player in the line-up. I don't care that Cano was the best hitter in the line-up.

    I don't miss either.
     
  2. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    I've already spelled it out for you multiple times, but I'll say it all over again:

    - MLB's senior vice president for investigations, Dan Mullin, seduced a Biogenesis nurse for information on Rodriguez
    - MLB purchased Biogenesis documents that were known to be stolen; Florida investigators warned MLB to stay away from them. In purchasing those stolen documents, MLB committed obstruction of justice and and caused the Florida and federal investigations against Bosch and his clinic to fall apart.
    - MLB spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to purchase additional evidence, which anyone can tell you isn't exactly a reputable way of doing business.
    - MLB has been blackmailing Bosch; they ensured his cooperation by saying they'd hand over everything they have to the feds, and stop paying his legal bills, if he didn't say what he did about Rodriguez.

    And the 60 Minutes report was a fucking joke and every bit the hit piece I said it was going to be ... it was MLB jacking off into its own mouth. The whole thing was obviously timed to coincide with the arbitrator's decision (and the MLBPA is furious about it), Bosch's attempt at fake crying was hilarious, and he has no credibility whatsoever.

    The best part was that he had no remorse for anything and admitted that he'd still be doing the exact same thing if he didn't get caught THEN following it up with the worst attempt at fake crying I've ever seen. He talked out of both sides of his mouth the entire time.

    He claims he's been working with players for 10 years, yet only Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez get mentioned by name -- a guy who is out of baseball, and a guy who will get the Bonds treatment. None of the players already suspended get a mention.

    Then he implies that PED usage is widespread, and what he's doing is leveling the playing field. If he's at all credible, then the logical takeaway is that the league has a massive problem on its hands, but 60 Minutes ends the report by sucking Selig's dick and saying he oversees the toughest anti-doping program in sports (which is false on its face; that's the NFL and the Olympics), and he is very very tough on them (even though baseball didn't test for drugs ten years ago). Don't look behind this curtain!

    If you think that MLB propping up a drug dealer (MLB has been working in back channels to get Bosch out of legal jams, and has also been paying his bills -- thus far, he's gotten a cool $2 million from MLB) to go after its own employees is a good thing, then I have no idea what planet you're living on, because that's a chilling precedent for labor rights and what it says employers can do when they decide they just don't like someone.

    Why negotiate a CBA and a Joint Drug Agreement if you aren't going to abide by them?

    Edit: Joe Posnanski has an excellent article summarizing why 60 Minutes' piece was a hilariously bad joke.

    The MLBPA has lost far more power than that, and it's not a good thing for the game.

    I mean, okay, Alex Rodriguez is dirty as fuck, and he also gives people a million reasons to dislike him because he's an asshole. That doesn't excuse any of MLB's behavior, which has been wildly inappropriate from Day 1 because of Selig's zeal to nail Rodriguez to the wall. If MLB had gone through the proper processes (processes it agreed to), this wouldn't be a complete fucking farce. They didn't, though, which makes this entire "scandal" a joke.

    "These guys are really good baseball players, but I'm glad they aren't on this old, shitty team I root for even though they'd make it better." [​IMG]
     
  3. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I love the laughing pooch.
     
  4. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    I just can't sort out all the double standards. Arod is a cheating sack of shit. On the other hand, Pettite is a sure Hall of Famer. Pettite ADMITTED to taking PEDs, did he not? Of course, like any good cheater, it only happened the once, and was for a good reason.

    Cano sucks, don't want him on the team. Then again, Brian Roberts is going to be a beast, even though he hasn't played more than a 1/4 season in 5 years.

    Figure it out and get back to us, getting dizzy from the flip-flopping.
     
  5. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ...and what exactly is illegal? Do you think mother Theresa was just going to give everything up?

    I commend MLB for going after these cheaters.

    Whether it's palatable or not, crap like this is done all the time. Not sure why all of a sudden you have issue with this.

    Never claimed Bosch's is a stand up guy. He WAS getting paid by A-Rod and they WERE texting like crazy. Guess that doesn't matter because you think he's sleazy.

    Well, you see how good Manny was after he got caught...

    Funny, you bang him for not doing anything 10 years ago, and then slam him for doing what he could while battling the players union.

    WTF???

    All legal and, knock - knock, MLB needed Bosch for this fight.

    What part are they NOT abiding too?

    Really? Are you suggesting that the only way play can "get caught" is by popping on a piss test?

    A-Rod and paid chronies are supposed to be allowed to obstruct an investigation... because he didn't pop positive on a piss test?

    WTF are you saying here?

    Bull, name one area that their supposed loss of power is "bad for the game"...

    This really has NOTHING to do with him being a jerk. As far as the artitor is concerned, A-Rod could beat his mother on weekends and it would have NO BEARING on this case.

    Again, what "proper processes" are you referring to? MLB aquired evidence and they brought it into the process.

    What's your process? ....

    MLB - "Excuse me Mr A-Rod, we heard you might have accossitations with a company called Biogenisus, is this true"?

    A-Rod - "No not really"

    MLB - OK, didn't think so - despite all the FUCKING EVIDENCE we have.

    Well, A-Rod IS a CSOS.

    I never said Petitte was a sure HOF'er

    Never said Cano sucks

    I said robert COULD be lighting in a bottle

    And you're just being an asshole.
     
  6. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Obstruction of Justice is illegal.

    Should Petitte be in the Hall of Fame?
     
  7. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Only if a deal isn't made. How many plea bargains are made?

    That was the question. If Bonds and Clemons are, then yes... but if they don't go then probably not.
     
  8. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, and here is the reason that A-ROID shouldn't get his day in Federal Court...

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...ral-court-but-hes-not-likely-to-have-success/

     
  9. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Almost all of MLB's Biogenesis evidence is twice stolen, and most of it is not the original source material. MLB paid the accomplice of the second thief (using a false name) in cash for those stolen goods. Their only substantial witness is an admitted drug dealer (who ironically may never end up in jail for dealing drugs to kids because MLB obstructed the investigation by state and federal police, which is obstruction of justice) who filed what MLB now contends are false affidavits, and only changed his story after receiving major financial and legal benefits from MLB, and who during the arbitration appeal invoked his Fifth Amendment privilege to avoid Rodriguez's cross-examination -- after not doing so during MLB's examination. They don't actually have a positive test or any physical evidence of use.

    On what planet is that a competent or above-the-board investigation?

    Incidentally, the arbitration opinion is a fascinating read. Rodriguez does not come across well, but it's clear that he got badly railroaded with little to no recourse because of how weak the current CBA / JDA process is in protection for players on "just cause" violations.
     
  10. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Whether or not a plea bargain is made doesn't change whether or not an underlying crime was committed.

    Should Alex Rodriguez be in the Hall of Fame?
     
  11. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Man, the debate on that five years after he retires is going to be insane.

    Looking at the numbers, it's indisputable. JAWS puts him as the second-best shortstop of all time, behind only Honus Wagner, and fourteen full points ahead of the guy in third place, a little-known fellow named Cal Ripken, Jr., and thirty points ahead of Luke Appling, who's ninth among shortstops. (Rodriguez is the only active player in the top nine; all are in the Hall of Fame.) If he retired today, the stats argument would have him sailing in on the first ballot.

    But then there's everything off the field. His name was illegally leaked off a confidential list of positives that wasn't even supposed to exist, and long before Biogenesis, MLB was already going after him because of that and the Anthony Galea stuff. (And the baseball media at large has generally bought into that narrative.)

    What we have, based on the arbitration documents, is some documentary evidence that is really sketchily sourced ... but if taken at face value, while not a smoking gun, generally supports the idea that Rodriguez was using, and a witness supporting that documentary evidence that would have been absolutely annihilated in a real court case but was much tougher to impeach here because of the rules of this arbitration, particularly in that he was examined by MLB's lawyer, but when the Rodriguez side came up for cross-examination, he was allowed to take the 5th. On the other side, we have a bunch of drug tests that Rodriguez passed and his vehement public denials of use in the period in question.

    I personally think Rodriguez has probably been doping all along, even back in Seattle, and I honestly had little sympathy for him until the stories came out about MLB's "investigation." But that's mostly informed by my belief that a very, very large percentage of baseball players are doping in non-detectable, or barely detectable, ways, considering one of the smartest organizations in baseball gave Jhonny Peralta $53 million a few months after he got popped, which says they think either Peralta's still using and getting away with it, or that it did not significantly contribute to his success.

    So, I guess my opinion is that Rodriguez should be in the Hall, considering that at no point in the last 60 years has baseball ever been clean. Henry Aaron and Willie Mays were users of amphetamines, which have a much more demonstrable effect upon performance, and I don't see anyone campaigning for their recall from the Hall.
     
  12. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    The timing on Arod is kinda tricky here. Even with Bonds and Clemons, you can make the case that they were Hall-worthy before the steroids, and then took them to extend the career, or get crazy numbers again, or whatever.

    Near as we can tell, was there EVER a 'clean' period for Arod? Has admitted to using them before, and rumors about it go all the way back to high school basically. Was he a great player that wanted more, or how much of the whole thing is chemically created to begin with? Not sure we've ever seen the real him...
     
  13. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Great post Timby, but I think A-Rod's bed is made. Unless there is a 180 turn on the PED thing (which I don't see coming with Bonds and Clemons vote percentage going down) he's not getting in.

    With the off-field crap, he has put himself in the same category as Palmero.
     
  14. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the biggest tell all is A-Rod's choice not to testify in his own arbitration hearing. This article pretty much sums up the whole thing.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...a-explaining-bosch-evidence-article-1.1578735

    Oh, shady characters? ... how about his lawyer? :)

    A-Rod is toast. I hope the Yankees find a way to find him in breach of contract or just cut their losses and send him on his way.

    As a life-long Yankees fan, I never want to see him in pin-stripes or on the field again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  15. Tom Hendricks

    Tom Hendricks There's a- a peck here with an acorn pointed at me Premium Member

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    I hope that Alex Rodriguez wins all his lawsuits and plays this upcoming season.
     
  16. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm fine with the Yankees buying him out if they don't want to see him again, I just don't want them to get the Get out of Jail Free card on this. Overpay upfront to get the good years, and then no consequences for the albatross at the end, that sucks.

    If they want to pay his freight to get rid of him, and have the money count, by all means go for it. if they want to weasel out of it, i hope that worst case, Arod does his year (or whatever ends up happening) and then shows up next year ready to collect on the last couple years of his deal. Big money, kill a roster spot, close to another big payday milestone, etc.

    I really don't care about Arod either way, just don't like the lack of consequences on the Yankees' part. Not like this is a shock to them, and they were happy to have a juiced Arod when he was playing well. Second he starts to get old/injured, they want to pretend they're outraged and he should let them off the hook :lol:
     
  17. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like the argument.
     
  18. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Really where i'm at. Even in football with non-guaranteed contracts, you don't get completely bailed out when you make a bad deal. Especially seeing that the Yankees (in theory) benefited from the first half, they should take the hit for the 2nd half.

    If they are suddenly concerned about intergrity of the game and whatnot, just write him a check for the salary (or a negotiated amount of it), and case closed. I'd bet they'd fight to keep him if he was still hitting when he got busted, but hey, that's fine, just buy him out.

    I object to the bad half of the deal being swept under the rug, they should have to pay for being stupid with the money. Knew he was what he was, paid him for it and got the good years, and once he lost a step, throwing him under the rug to avoid the bad half of the deal. that sucks.
     
  19. the 4th hanson bro

    the 4th hanson bro No one can resist my Schweddy balls! Moderator

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    Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM
     
  20. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Timby, whatcha think about the Cubs being rumored as one of three teams hot on the heels of Tanaka?

    I would love to see him in Chicago.

    Is he worth the amount of money he's sure to get?

    Also, how can the Yanks get in under the "189" if they sign him? Or is he worth forgetting about that number?
     
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