MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by Mr. Laser Beam, Oct 31, 2013.

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  1. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    The Red Sox won because they were the better team. I emphasize "team". They had no head-cases (manager included) and their pitching staff got it done. I enjoyed watching them in the post season.

    That's a great article. Thank you, I hadn't seen it.

    I knew we won allot of 1-run games, but didn't know it was 30!

    He misjudges Jeter's worth. It's never been because he's a great defensive short-stop. It's been because he a fierce competitor, like a Michael Jordon.

    Just Yankin chains about the Red Sox fear and everything BTW.

    What I will disagree with is what he proclaims Cano is(was) worth. (and yes I know what his #'s are and what they are supposed to mean) I watched him play for 9 years. Yeah, lots of doubles and numbers but he DID NOT play up to potential. I don't like his laxidasical attitude and lack of discipline at the plate. He unquestionably has the talent to bust 400, he just doesn't have the brains. I would sooner take Pedroia over Cano. I can't believe you guys got him that cheap. I think he's worth more.

    Great points about free agents and our farm system. They have always spent to keep a championship team on the field (all not wisely for sure). This new lux tax etc is going to make it tougher for them. They are going to have to figure out how to get talent in their farm system... no doubt.

    A-Rod is a WTF... I personally never liked him, even when he lived up to his billing in 2009. That's just me. As far as I'm concerned, he could never play another inning of baseball and the game would be better for it. There was a time when I was rooting for him to break Bonds record, because I hate him worse. If only Junior could have stayed healthy.

    Here's the way I see this upcoming season.

    New blood (and class guys) in the club-house, new roles for some. Giardi has proven he can manage a pitching staff. If we land Tanaka, I think we are in it to win it. If we are in it at the end, it's because our pitching staff was strong enought to get us there and if it's strong enough to get us there, it's strong enough to win it coming out of the AL East.

    Further than that? Don't know and the article paints what could be pretty grim lean years ahead.

    It will most certainly interesting.
     
  2. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    My point is that you suggested that the reason for the Yankees' attendance drop, television viewing drop and season ticket plunge was due to a lack of star power. However, all of those trends started in 2012, when Jeter, Cano, Rodriguez, Teixeira, Granderson and Swisher were all in the starting lineup, and Kuroda, Sabathia, Pettite and Rivera were all clowning fools. That's a lineup with a lot of "star power," but fewer people were paying attention already.

    As it so happens, 2012 is when they started dumpster diving on the Project 189 bullshit. :lol:

    One-run games is a meaningless at worst and misleading at best statistic, because it doesn't provide any context for how the game came to be within one run.

    When no one has ever hit .400 since 1941, Cano was supposed to do it? What on Earth? I'm not even sure what to make of the "brains" comment, outside of it reading as a borderline dog whistle.

    The luxury tax isn't new (it dates back to 2003). What is new is that Hal Steinbrenner doesn't want to pay it anymore.

    And I don't get how anyone can hate Barry Bonds. He's only the greatest hitter in human history.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not ready to give up. The Yankees survived the 80's, and they can survive this (despite the gloating of the Yankee-haters). Sure, the Yankees might not be "dominant" anymore, in that sense, but what the hell do I care? Real fans - of any team - will like them even if they're at the bottom of their division. I'm trying not to let the gloating get to me. ;)

    Signing Tanaka would definitely help, I'll grant that much. :techman:
     
  4. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    With 101 full ballots in (roughly 18 percent of the vote), the current Hall of Fame numbers by percentage are:

    100 - Maddux
    97.0 - Glavine
    90.0 - F. Thomas
    80.2 - Biggio
    ———————————
    72.3 - Piazza
    65.3 - Bagwell
    62.4 - Jack Morris
    56.4 - Raines
    44.6 - Bonds
    43.6 - Clemens
    38.6 - Schilling
    34.7 - Mussina
    23.8 - Trammell
    19.8 - L. Smith
    19.8 - E. Martinez
    15.8 - McGriff
    12.9 - Kent
    11.9 - L. Walker
    10.9 - McGwire
    8.9 - S. Sosa
    7.9 - R. Palmeiro
    5.0 - Mattingly
    ———————————
    1.0 - P. Rose (Write-In)

    ... man, fuck everyone who does a Pete Rose write-in.
     
  5. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    The point is he has the talent, but does not have the brains necessary to accomplish it. Not much displine at the plate at all.

    Hal doesn't want the percentage to go up to 50%. He wants the reset. 50% is just stupid, especially when you see where that "Yankee tax" goes.

    Explaining the luxary tax. http://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/mlb/explaining-the-luxury-tax-in-major-league-baseball.aspx

    He's a prick that left my Pirates.
     
  6. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    I have no problem with the top 4.

    I think Pete Rose will get in after he dies.

    And I can't fathom a reason why Mike Piazza isn't already in.

    http://waiverwireblog.com/2013/12/23/the-case-for-cooperstown-14-mike-piazza/
     
  7. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Rose will never get in -- he is on the Hall of Fame's permanently ineligible list, and people on that list cannot be elected to the Hall, either by the BBWAA or the Veterans' Committee. In any event, fuck Pete Rose.

    As for Piazza, he's only the greatest offensive catcher in history, but because he had acne on his back, self-righteous gasbags have declared him a steroid user. Ridiculous.

    As for the top 4, I have no problem with any of them, although Jack Morris is still too close to 75% for my comfort and it's patently absurd that Mussina and Schilling are still south of 40% -- Mussina was one of the most consistent pitchers ever, and Schilling is indisputably the best postseason pitcher in history. Bonds' continued blacklisting is by far the biggest abomination, of course.
     
  8. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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  9. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Eh. It's an article that uses a ton of words to say a whole lot of nothing (which is par for the course for Bleacher Report, given that it's a clickbait and SEO farm). The article essentially says, "Well, the Yankees might be decent ... but they might not ... old teams sometimes are decent ... but sometimes they're not ... so who knows?"
     
  10. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm happy about the top two.
     
  11. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    All four of them are no-brainers, really.

    It's distressing to see Mussina so low, though, as I said. He walked fewer batters, struck out more, and gave up fewer hits over his career than Glavine, and his ERA+ is better. As I've said in the past, though, this and the next few ballots are going to be stacked -- in addition to guys like Bonds and Clemens and Piazza who should already be in, this year added Mussina, Glavine, Maddux, Kent and Thomas, while next year's ballot adds Big Unit, Pedro Martinez, Smoltz and Sheffield, and even 2016 adds Junior Griffey, Edmonds and a borderline case in Trevor Hoffman.

    All that being said, though, the BBWAA really needs to revamp who can and cannot vote. There's a small golf news site called golferswest.com that has three staff members who covered baseball about a million years ago and still use their Hall of Fame votes. It's a fucking golf site, but they get to vote and Vin Scully doesn't. Tell me where the justice is in that.
     
  12. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    Oh, what the hell.

    Should be in, or should not be in?

    Maddux - Could be the 1st player to get in 1st ballet with 100 percent of the vote. Slam dunk. I hated the Braves and used to watch games just to see him pitch. Wow.

    Glavine - Hell year, nd should be a 1st ballet guy.

    F. Thomas - The Big Hurt should be in.

    Biggio - Catcher, 2nd baseman, OF, 3000+ hits, he should be in.

    Piazza - Was his liability behind the plate the reason he is not already in? I think he makes it.

    Bagwell - Arguably the 6th best 1st baseman to ever play and he's not already in? WTF??

    Jack Morris - I remember him as one of the best of his era. He won 36 more games and threw 291 more innings than any other pitcher in baseball from 1977-94. Is he a Mattox? ... Clemons? no - but I think he should be in.

    Raines - 5th all tie in steals, one of the best player of his day. He should be in.

    Bonds - Arguably the best player ever? I don't know. Like I said earlier, I don't know how to decipher the PED thing.

    Clemens - Same category as Bonds here.

    Schilling - Nope, 216 wins isn't enough.

    Mussina - Yup, I think so.

    Trammell - Great defender, but not a bat to go with it. Nope, he's not in.

    L. Smith - Nope.

    E. Martinez - Nope. Big Papi should get in either. (DH)

    McGriff - Nope, sorry crime dog

    Kent - hell no.

    L. Walker - In. I didn't remember him stealing so many bases. I don't care that he played in Coors Field.

    McGwire - Same category as Bonds here.

    S. Sosa - Same category as Bonds here.

    R. Palmeiro - Same category as Bonds here.

    Mattingly - So sad he had the bad back. Not in.
     
  13. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    For what it's worth on deciphering the PED thing, my view is that you try and discount that part of their career (to the best of your ability). If there's strong evidence of steroids, you exclude cases on the bubble. You never exclude on the basis of strong slugger with a big head and you have to keep in mind that pitchers are probably just as likely if not more likely to have benefited. However, marginal players who got better late in their career with ties to steroids around the same time period should be treated as marginal players and not Hall of Famers.

    Given these statistics, there's not a doubt in my mind Barry Bonds should be in since he would be deserving even if he had a career ending injury the day before he used steroids. However, someone like Mark McGwire doesn't have much going for him besides homeruns so he's always more marginal and his most noteworthy time period was one he clearly was using steroids. So he probably shouldn't make it.
     
  14. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Wins are an artificial statistic that has no bearing upon a pitcher's performance, and Morris was never even the best pitcher on his own team. Being an innings eater doesn't make you a great pitcher -- ask Aaron Sele.

    Edit: And Maddux is not getting 100%. If Seaver didn't, no one is.
     
  15. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah Ruth only got 95% :)

    Not sure how you can not consider wins as a factor.
     
  16. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Because a pitcher's wins, again, are an artificial statistic -- it only means that his offense happened to score more runs than he gave up during a particular game (to say nothing of any defense-independent pitching statistics). It says absolutely nothing about his actual performance. For example: Ryan Dempster was a balls-out awesome starter for the Cubs in 2012, but he didn't get his first win until June 5 because the offense was complete dogshit.

    Let's take it a step farther and look at Maddux. In 1994, when he had a fucking ridiculous 1.56 ERA and a 271 ERA+, he "only" had 16 wins. In both his 20-win seasons, his ERA+ averaged 168 (still excellent) and his WHIP was north of 1. Again, still excellent stats, but not as lights-out as 1994 -- but if you were to look at his wins, you'd think that '92 and '93 were better, which is wrong on its face. Even if you disregard 1994 due to it being strike-shortened, every single season in which Maddux had more than those 16 wins had him boasting a worse ERA+ and WHIP.

    This is why Morris' entire case for the Hall of Fame falls apart as soon as you look at any meaningful number: He was a good, occasionally very good pitcher who ate a ton of innings and did nothing else of note. As soon as you remove Game 7 from the equation (which was really due to Lonnie Smith being a knucklehead and Kent Hrbek having a cannon of an arm), you cannot make an intellectually honest argument for Morris in the Hall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
  17. Pegaritaville

    Pegaritaville Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I think Morris should get in, but I also realize that as a Twins fan, I'm biased. Still, he was more than just an inning eater- he pitched a lot of great games (including a doozy in the World Series). This will be his last shot and I hope he gets in, but if he falls short, I can understand that as well.
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jerry Coleman has died. :( Link
     
  19. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Assuming you're referring to Game 7, it was indeed a doozy of a game ... but, again, not because of Morris, but because Lonnie Smith was an idiot.

    Again, what did Morris do in his career that was of particular note, performance-wise, besides eating a fuckton of innings? He gave up a lot of dingers, he had a few seasons of being strikeout king, never finished higher than third in Cy Young voting. He never had a run of being the best pitcher in the AL, to say nothing of the major leagues, and you can make arguments that he was only the second-best starter on both the Detroit and Minnesota staffs.

    Going back to what I wrote on this topic a year ago:

    I don't see anyone saying that Wells or Hershiser are Hall of Famers, but because of Game 7, there's a ridiculous narrative around Morris. I don't get it. Again: Take Game 7 out of it, and what case do you have?

    The Veterans Committee will elect him in '15 or '16 ('16 being more likely in my mind, because then they could put him in alongside Trammell, who will never get elected, despite him being one of the best shortstops of all time).

    This is a huge bummer; Coleman was one of the all-time greats. We're going to be losing more of them, soon: Vin Scully doesn't have much time left, nor do Ralph Kiner or Milo Hamilton. :(
     
  20. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    I'll agree with the ERA point. I ended up supporting King Felix getting the CY Young over CC. But it's really hard to discount wins as a factor. Felix was SO good that year I made the exception.

    But I will take issue with "it only means that his offense happened to score more runs than he gave up during a particular game"

    Take someone like Andy Petitte. He was his best in important games and that's what he thrived in

    "it only means that the pitcher held the opposing offense to less runs than his team scored during a particular game"

    If Mattox is left off someones ballet, I'm going to go shoot him. There is no reason on the planet or in the universe to leave him off a ballot.
     
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