MLB Offseason 2013-2014

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by Mr. Laser Beam, Oct 31, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Morris isn't in because he has absolutely no case. Going back to what I said in January:

    The only case Jack Morris has for him is a bunch of feel-good platitudes and a single game that was more due to shitty baserunning than anything else. Remove "Game 7" from the equation and what do you have? A decent pitcher who racked up a lot of innings but was never even the best pitcher on his own team, to say nothing of being the best in baseball.

    Jim Rice only made it in because he hung around on the ballot a lot longer than anyone expected to, and the Red Sox started a massive PR campaign to get him elected, primarily through Dan Shaughnessy, since they have their arm so far up his ass they can move a finger and make him sing "Yankee Doodle Dandy" on command. That's another guy who really doesn't belong -- "most feared hitter," my ass. Barry Bonds was intentionally walked 43 more times in a single season than Jim Rice was in his whole career. J-Rice is 191st in career intentional walks, tied with legends of the game like Geoff Jenkins and Clay Dalrymple, and they didn't even start counting them until the mid-1950s, so there are plenty of more guys that would be ahead of Rice if their numbers weren't lost to time. The most feared hitter of Rice's era was George Brett or Mike Schmidt, not Rice.

    The fuck does that have to do with anything? [​IMG]

    Let's remember a couple of things: Mandatory drug testing didn't begin in MLB until 2004, meaning until that time, none of these substances people may or may not have been on were banned by baseball. Second, baseball has never been a drug-free sport. Again, as I said, amphetamines were all over baseball as far back as the '50s -- and those do have a confirmed, measurable effect upon player performance, as opposed to steroids.

    The BBWAA's position on '90s players is driven by two things: Holding onto this wistful idea of "baseball the way it should have been" (I'm looking at you, Costas, you dumb son of a bitch), and resentment against statistical movements like SABR which they still believe is composed of a bunch of dudes in their mom's basement.

    From where I stand, Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter ever to play the game of professional baseball, and for him to be excluded from the Hall of Fame is absurd, particularly given that he never tested positive once in his life and went to court over steroid usage, and got off on everything outside of giving an evasive answer to a grand jury). When it comes to other guys being excluded, it's on a case-by-case basis: Rafael Palmeiro used, but his numbers are nowhere near a Hall of Fame career. Same with Mark McGwire, whose career was entirely too short. What's really bad is that guys like Craig Biggio, who were never linked in any way to steroids, are getting lumped in with guys like McGwire.

    And I agree that off-the-field issues shouldn't affect a candidacy; for example, Curt Schilling is a massive piece of shit, but clearly over the line just based on his regular season work, to say nothing of him being the greatest starting pitcher in modern postseason history. That's not wins bullshit or bloody sock voodoo, he's just the best there's been by a pretty wide margin since the deadball era, when the postseason was a much different thing. He has the actual case that dumb people think Jack Morris has.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  2. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Personally, I think it's a tragedy that hitters are assumed to be the biggest culprits when the evidence (and logic) suggests that pitchers used them more often. Steroids were more effective in helping you heal and recover from injuries, meaning that it disproportionately affected pitchers (who tear up their arms and then recover between games) and old people. For the latter category, I do think many of these hitters who ended up having a late career surge probably would have had their numbers tail off a bit. I don't think that can be ignored. It's why my view is that candidates who would otherwise be on the bubble and have definite ties to steroids should not get in. But this guilt by association for pretty much every strong hitter in the last twenty years is absolutely ridiculous and should have no place in Baseball.
     
  3. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    And, as I've said many times, the "steroids = Magic Dinger Juice" argument completely dissolves and fails to hold water when you remember that noted power hitters like Neifi Perez, Melky Cabrera, Marlon Byrd and Eliézer Alfonzo have all gotten popped.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
  5. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Don't forget the greatest pitcher of all time was also juicing up -- Ryan Franklin.
     
  6. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    In Franklin's case, I think whatever he was taking was magic dinger juice for opposing batters. :lol:
     
  7. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Wouldn't mind seeing the Braves get Smajrierjtjdnadfgnza. Our bullpen could use a little help.
     
  8. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Location:
    NX01 Bridge
    You're really portraying yourself as an asshole.
     
  9. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Wow, it's almost that there are things things called ... wait ... shit ... oh, that's right: Facts. Sorry.

    Edit: What is the case for Jack Morris? Tell me why he should be in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  10. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Location:
    Rhode Island, USA
    Yeah, it's not a gold star, it's the Hall of Fame. Looking at his career, I just don't see it. Never won Cy Young, MVP, career average of 16-12 with a 3.90 ERA. Only won 20 games twice in a period where it wasn't that rare, and didn't have crazy stats or dominating years then (or other years). Mostly just counting stats that added up because he played 18 years.

    Not saying he was BAD, just not HOF-worthy. A Hall of Very Good candidate, I suppose.

    Got an opposing argument? What's his literal claim to fame, why should he be in?
     
  11. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  12. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Location:
    Rhode Island, USA
    1 game /= HOF career. Plenty of players have had a transcendant game, even in the playoffs, it doesn't make them HOF-worthy. Really looking for GENERATIONAL talent. Like, when you think of the late-80's/early-90's, who were the feared guys? You aren't going to mention Morris. You could have a write-up of that big game, but you don't need a bust on a plaque for it.

    Otherwise, the thing is TOO inclusive, and then why bother?

    As for Tanaka? Who knows, lots of bluster there. That about 40M fell out of what he would have been posted for certainly takes the incentive away from the Japanese team, though. Even then, with a 20M max bid, there will be 15-20 teams that all agree to that, so Yankees don't have any advantage there, and can't hide payroll in the posting fee. It'll end up being a 6/100M or so sort of deal on top of the posting fee, give or take, and anyone can bid. The big market teams took advantage of hiding the money, which is why the smaller teams wanted it this way. Yankees can certainly bid, but not exclusively, and if they win, it'll count against the Luxury Tax. And it only takes one team to be stupid with the money (Seattle, Dodgers) for Yankees to be left in the cold there.
     
  13. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    You're preaching to the choir. This is what I said on this page:

    I don't see anyone saying Kevin Brown or Kevin Appier were HoF pitchers (and justifiably so).
     
  14. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
  15. the 4th hanson bro

    the 4th hanson bro No one can resist my Schweddy balls! Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Location:
    the 4th hanson bro
    [​IMG]

    Let's keep the commentary over the plate and not go high and inside, eh?

    This ends your 7th inning mod comments. Play ball!
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
  17. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    I guess they have a weight quota to maintain and trading Prince caused a large deficit.

    I mean, Dave Dombrowski is a smart person and generally very competent, but this offseason has been ridiculously weird, almost as nonsensical as the Yankees' (almost). If I'm doing my checks accurately:

    Tigers subtract:
    Fister
    Prince
    Infante
    Peralta
    Benoit
    Veras
    Smyly (from bullpen)

    Tigers add:
    Smyly (to rotation)
    Castellanos
    Kinsler
    Lombardozzi
    Davis
    Nathan
    Krol
    Ray
    Chamberlain

    So, the bullpen is worse, the offense is worse, the starting rotation is worse. Has Dombrowski been eating too much Little Caesar's?
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    And the Royals get Infante. Dafuq?
     
  19. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Location:
    NX01 Bridge
    This is the first I've heard of this. They must have given him 4 years?
     
  20. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Location:
    Va. Beach, VA
    Infante has always been a nice player to have on your roster. Very versatile defender and generally hits for contact. Pretty good number 2 or 8 hitter.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page