MLB Offseason 2012

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by Ríu ríu chíu, Oct 30, 2012.

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  1. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Reasons why John Gibbons owns:

    1: Loves platoons
    2: Hates bunting
    3: Hates Adam Lind
    4: Fought Shea Hillenbrand

    But, yeah, I can see why it isn't exactly inspiring to the fanbase. That being said, be grateful: Jim fuckin' Riggleman was supposedly one of the finalists.
     
  2. Danny99

    Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ I nearly had a meltdown when Toronto papers had named Riggleman and Jim Tracy as finalists over this past weekend.
     
  3. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Rumor has it that the Braves and Phillies are in a bidding war for B.J. ".298 OBP" Upton. Rube's going to sign him for something insane like 7/150 and I am going to laugh so hard. [​IMG]
     
  4. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah yes, the second coming of Carl Crawford.
     
  5. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Braves are going to back out of the bidding war as soon as actual money is involved.
     
  6. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    I'm not entirely sure that's true, Upton's got an absurd reputation around him, and Wren is the kind of GM who buys into ~narrative~ over what makes sense, baseball-wise.

    That being said, Wren is merely incompetent and the Phillies' front office is borderline insane. Rube gonna Rube and I can't wait to see what kind of hilariously moronic contract Philadelphia gives Upton.
     
  7. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    First-time eligible players for the 2013 Hall of Fame:

    Sandy Alomar Jr.
    Craig Biggio
    Barry Bonds

    Jeff Cirillo
    Royce Clayton
    Roger Clemens
    Jeff Conine
    Steve Finley
    Julio Franco
    Shawn Green
    Roberto Hernandez
    Ryan Klesko
    Kenny Lofton
    Jose Mesa
    Mike Piazza
    Reggie Sanders
    Curt Schilling
    Aaron Sele
    Sammy Sosa
    Mike Stanton
    Todd Walker
    David Wells
    Rondell White
    Woody Williams
     
  8. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    With the passing of Marvin Miller: thoughts on whether he should get into the HOF? I'm thinking, most likely yes, he should.

    Not so fast...
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  9. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Yes and no. I do think Marvin Miller did some very good things for the game, but I also think Miller gets credited for things that were actually Dick Moss, Curt Flood, Peter Seitz and lots of others. The MLBPA was far from a one-man operation, and it's a disservice to pretend that Miller did all of those things on his own. Miller is hard to place in history, in large part because his impact has not played out entirely yet, which is not unusual among non-field competition Hall candidates and has delayed a lot of the pioneer/executive types.

    You can make an interesting, even persuasive case for Miller, and of course his current exclusion is at least in part because of burned personal bridges, not his contributions to the game. But he's distinctly not the old baseball great waiting by the phone for the plaque he earned; the cases for non-team executives are far more complicated and nuanced than they are for those whose contributions are easily measured.

    Miller also actively disdained the Hall, for much the same reasons that he fought against baseball in the first place -- and he vowed to boycott the ceremony if he was ever inducted. This isn't Phil Rizzuto or Ron Santo, where it would have made his entire life to go in.
     
  10. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Timby, you can stop gloating. Phils pass on Upton and he signs with the Braves (5 years, $75.25 million).
     
  11. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Murray Chass wrote that one of the reasons Miller was kept out of the running for the HOF was that people were afraid of what he would say at the induction ceremony...
     
  12. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    That's not as awful of an overpay as I was expecting, but it's still going out on a pretty creaky limb. I would not want to be locking up a guy that's very much living on the edge of total collapse for five years. I guess if you want to believe that there's also some chance Upton will ever play back to 2007, he's a high risk / high reward guy, but he feels more like a high risk / medium reward guy, and at that type of commitment I'd rather just sign Josh Hamilton.

    Or, put another way, B.J. Upton swing percentage on pitches outside of the zone by year:

    2008: 15.0%
    2009: 19.6%
    2010: 25.3%
    2011: 27.2%
    2012: 32.7%

    And the walk and K rates are catching up to that.
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It'll be interesting to see if Bonds, Clemens and Sosa get the same treatment that Palmeiro and McGwire have so far. Biggio, Schilling and Piazza all deserve to get it, but I'm not sure if their numbers are strong enough for a 1st ballot. Also with all the big names popping up this year(and more to come in 2014), how will this effect Bagwell and Morris, both of whom got pretty close last time. Should be interesting to see if we'll even get a Hall of Famer this year, with so many people with good numbers to vote for.
     
  14. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    BBWAA members can select ten players on their ballot. This is the one true ballot:

    Ser Barrold of House Bonds
    Mike Piazza
    Roger Clemens
    Tim Raines
    Craig Biggio
    Jeff Bagwell
    Curt Schilling
    Larry Walker
    Mark McGwire
    Pick your personal favorite of Edgar / Trammell / Lofton / etc. because there is only room for one of them (it should be Lofton)
     
  15. Tom Hendricks

    Tom Hendricks You move! Premium Member

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    I would love for Mike Piazza to make it first ballot, but I don't think he will. While a great hitter, he was a pedestrian catcher. I know that he has the most Home Runs of any catcher but is that a reason to be put into the Hall of Fame?

    On other Mets news, looks like the Mets have wrapped up David Wright till 2020. It's an 8 year, $140 million dollar deal.
     
  16. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Cubs are reportedly in on Michael "career OPS+ of 90" Bourn.

    Kill me.
     
  17. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Piazza had a few years in his prime where he hit for power and average, but he really tailed off later in his career. He could jack one out of the park, but was more or less a one trick pony. His defense was atrocious, but he did handle the pitchers well.

    As for Wright, I'm glad they locked him up. He's a perennial all star who finally seemed to figure out Shiti Field last year. The duration scares me. It's not quite the A-Rod or Pujols deals where they are signed until they are AARP eligible, but it's close.
     
  18. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Bourn was a great asset for us last year. He was always on base, it seemed like. He does strike out a lot, but if he makes contact with the ball, he's getting on base. He's not going to sign with the Cubs though, don't worry.

    Intersted about the Upton signing. He's making hints that he wants the Braves to go after Justin, too. He actually seems really excited to be here.

    Angels fans, enjoy Tommy Hanson. He's a Boras brat that never seemed to really like Atlanta, so maybe he'll perform better in LA. I feel bad for Jurrjens because he is a nice guy and a great pitcher that just seemed to have a meltdown last year. I'm REALLY going to miss Peter Moylan. That dude is hilarious.
     
  19. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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  20. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Good deal. There's also a $5.5 million option that vests based on games finished. If it doesn't vest, it becomes a club option.

    You can never have too many assets, and Fujikawa is an asset, considering he has a 1.36 ERA in Japan and a world-class fastball. It's not like signing him is going to change their long-term plans, and there's a very good chance it's part of the long-term plans. If he performs well, they can trade him for more long-term pieces, or they can spin Marmol (my gut instinct is that he's gone after the winter meetings). Or, maybe he's effective for six or seven years and they keep him around. Not every move you make has to be acquiring young, cost-controlled talent.
     
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