Mind Meld Motive (SPOILER)

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Shatnertage, May 22, 2013.

  1. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Something I was wondering about when I saw the movie...why do you think Spock melded with Pike as he (Pike) was mortally wounded?

    I wasn't sure if it was just scientific curiosity or genuine empathy. In other words, did he meld because he wanted to feel what Pike was feeling to increase his knowledge of humans (and maybe, on a personal note, to know what his mother felt as she fell to her death) or did he do it because his emotional center would help Pike better face his last moments of life?

    I'm really not sure. I could definitely see early season 1 TOS Spock doing it just to "gather data," and we know that NuSpock is interested enough in testing how people face adversity that he designed the Kobayashi Maru test. Wouldn't he want to know how one of Starfleet's most courageous admirals faced death? On the other hand, if we want a Spock that we can relate to, the second explanation seems safest.

    And, while we're on the subject, isn't it kind of a no-no to do a meld with someone who doesn't give their consent?

    Just curious what perspective others have on this/
     
  2. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Rated Awesome By 9 out of 10 Awesome Experts Moderator

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    I think it was a little bit of both wanting to comfort Pike and wanting to know what death felt like. The early part of the movie seemed to show that he was way too willing to allow himself to die. The meld seemed to drive him away from it based on what he felt in Pike.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Comforting Pike, and also having lost so much himself, I think he was curious if there was anything beyond.
     
  4. Norsehound

    Norsehound Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Comfort, but my initial thought on that scene was if Pike had any Important Dying Messages to pass on. I was kind of expecting some kind of revelation from Spock, referencing that scene, that might have comforted Kirk later (His greatest disappointment captain was not seeing you become the captain you were meant to be).
     
  5. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good points. I hadn't considered the "getting a last message from Pike" angle.
     
  6. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since transference is part of the mind meld, it was probably both comforting Pike and experiencing what he was going through. While the former is a more noble reason for doing it than the latter, Spock's curiosity with death may have been more of a motivator than he'd care to admit.

    It also contrasts with him being unable to comfort Kirk in his dying moments. Spock can only sit there and listen to Kirk tell him he's scared as he suffers.
     
  7. Gsam

    Gsam Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    My thoughts on the matter are pretty similar with everything posted here up to this point. The one rather unsettling thought I had in addition to these is that perhaps Pike was scared further by Spock's intrusion...perhaps it reminded him of the whole Nero/Narada event and that surely would not bring the man any comfort.

    The look on Pike's face as he passed looked blank..except for the tear rolling down his cheek...I hope this is not because he was terrified with the reminder of Nero and the slug etc.

    I found this portion of the movie to be extremely upsetting and could do without ever seeing it again. I would so much have preferred that a message was passed along to Kirk..but I guess it just wasn't meant to be.
     
  8. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Definitely got the comforting vibe; Spock probably felt he could ease Pike's pain. The look he got on his face pretty immediately afterwards indicated he was not at all prepared for the flow in the opposite direction.
     
  9. tippy

    tippy Ensign Red Shirt

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    Why did he try and mind meld with Khan?
     
  10. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    He was probably trying to disable Khan with a telepathic attack.
     
  11. Shilliam Watner

    Shilliam Watner Commander

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    My thoughts exactly.
     
  12. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It appears to work somewhat well, too. Just a little confusion there on the edge of the platform.
     
  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I loved the mind meld during the fight with Khan. It was while he had Spock in his skull-crushing finisher, and Spock transfers to him all the physical and emotional pain and termoil he's feeling - and Khan screams and lets go. It was a Vulcan fighting dirty. Brilliant!
     
  14. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That was a mind meld? Hmm. I just thought that Spock could squeeze harder than Khan.
     
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    A try at the Vulcan Death Grip? :shifty: ;)
     
  16. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    The Countdown to Darkness comics certainly makes that the central theme for the Spocj character.
     
  17. Joby

    Joby Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wow I've seen this movie 3 times already and I missed that Spock was mind melding with Khan during that scene. It looked like they were both just trying to crush each other. It was great tactic on Spock's part though if that's what he was doing.
     
  18. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't like the Pike-Spock mind meld. It felt creepy to me, a violation. It wasn't something Pike asked for.

    At first I mollified myself with the idea that Spock was just trying to comfort Pike, but later on in the film I got the impression that Spock did it to experience what dying is like.

    I like Quinto's Spock quite a bit but there were times when his Spock is a little too emotional for my taste.
     
  19. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^ When I watched it, it did seem kind of clinical, maybe even voyeuristic. And, remembering that it's a two-way thing, I'm not totally sure I'd want to be inside Spock's brain during my last moments on earth.
     
  20. Brolan

    Brolan Commodore Commodore

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    I thought Spock was saving his katra. Pike may not be totally gone.