Members of the Federation.

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Deranged Nasat, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Oh God. Can you imagine a Tellarite version of Prime Minister's Questions?

    Star Trek: Star Charts identifies Tellar with 61 Cygni, and Andor with Procyon. I seem to remember that Procyon has become a less popular hypothesis lately, but I can't remember why.
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Hey, you, down on the floor! Yeah, you! 'Big Cheese' my snout! You couldn't legislate your way out of a paper bag! And your face looks like a cheap Halloween mask! Oh, wait..."
     
  3. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    "This honourable and intelligent colleague of mine..."

    "That is unCivil language! I demand you withdraw it!"

    "This flea-bitten son of a backstreets whore and an Andorian mercenary..."

    "Better".
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder what would happen if a Tellarite and a Zaldan (from "Coming of Age") met. They both like to argue and are offended by courtesy, but would they like each other? Think about it...
     
  5. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I think they'd just annoy each other, personally. :) Tellarites love to bluster, exaggerate, and make mountains out of molehills; Zaldans say how they really feel. The Tellarites are masking their true feelings much of the time (especially feelings of insecurity or inadequacy). The Zaldans, I think, would see that as discourtesy, like all deception. The Tellarites, meanwhile, would get annoyed if a Zaldan said "I find your manners rude, but overall I am indifferent towards you", or, Kera and Phinda forbid, "I have nothing to complain about".
     
  6. Paper Moon

    Paper Moon Commander Red Shirt

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    Christopher would be able to speak much more knowledgeably about this than I, but I believe it's because recent findings have suggested that real-world Procyon is both inconsistent with what's been shown onscreen, and is generally not likely to support life. (See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procyon#Possibility_of_life)
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think I get the thrust of the gist. Tellarites insult people all the time...but Zaldans simply say what's on their mind, which may or may not be insulting? Meaning, a Zaldan could be friendly if he or she likes you? I think I get it. (It would help if we had ever seen more than one Zaldan...)

    Fun fact:
    The one Zaldan we DID see, eventually becomes a starship captain, and apparently keeps a Vulcan around for when first contact situations come by. I thought that was pretty funny, actually. :lol:
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Procyon was never a good candidate for hosting habitable planets, due to its white dwarf companion. We knew that decades ago. But then, neither are most of the real named stars mentioned in Trek like Rigel, Deneb, Altair, etc. The problem is that the stars bright enough to be known by name are usually the biggest and hottest ones, and thus the most short-lived ones, simply not lasting long enough for intelligent life to evolve around them.

    Andor was traditionally associated in fandom with Epsilon Indi, because The Star Fleet Technical Manual listed it and 61 Cygni as founding members of the UFP and the later Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual chose to identify them with Andor and Tellar respectively (even though Franz Joseph evidently intended them to be human colonies, judging from the depicted flags and seals). It wasn't until Star Charts decades later that it was "moved" to Procyon. Presumably the reason Mandel moved it there was because ENT established Vulcan and Andoria as neighboring systems, and Procyon is 13 light-years from 40 Eridani while Epsilon Indi is 19 ly away. But other than that it's a really bad candidate.
     
  9. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    The Poisoned Chalice embraced Epsilon Indi once again, though that does conflict with Draylax being there in the Enterprise novels (and the Star Charts)

    Draylax orbits Beta Epsilon Indi! You heard it here first!
     
  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I'd actually forgotten about the earlier Epsilon Indi connection. :alienblush:

    Which ENT novel placed Draylax in the Epsilon Indi system, Nasat? I seem to have forgotten that, too.
     
  11. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I seem to remember the Andor system being referenced as Procyon in Titan: Fallen Gods, but I may be mistaken.
     
  12. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    No, Star Charts came out before Andor/Andoria was identified as a moon and not a planet. Therefore I desire more official identification in a modern novel.
     
  13. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    So what? Problems with the traits of the Procyon star are way more important in deciding whether to accept it as Andor's star than whether Andor is a moon or planet.
     
  14. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Many thanks for that info!

    If we presume that the ancestral offices established in Doors into Chaos still exist, perhaps that means that the First Seat of Tellar is the UPT's legislature, and the High Councillor is a prime-minister-like head of government?

    Memory Beta informs me that the Decipher RPG manuel Worlds, on the other hand, establishes a Tellar Global Congress, located in a capital city called Eranas.

    Hmmmm.
     
  15. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just to add to the confusion: ENT: "Azati Prime" sees the Battle of Procyon V in an alternate timeline. :rommie:
     
  16. Hando

    Hando Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, in that timeline the Andorian may have died out.
     
  17. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    And aren't Tellarites the type to jump to conclusions? I bet they love bold accusations and filibusters.
    I suppose maybe at that moment when the Federation takes out the Sphere Builders Andor's planet is on the opposite side of the Procyon system than Procyon V. That, however rests on if A. you accept Procyon as the Andorian home star and B. you accept the future shown in "Azati Prime" as the actual future. I do for both.
     
  18. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The future from "Azati Prime" was an alternate one from the start. In that timeline, the Xindi attack on Earth didn't occur and we had an ever-expanding expanse throughout TOS, TNG and afterwards. Archer's actions averted that timeline and led to a new one - where "our" TOS and TNG are set in. Thus, anything might have happend to the Andorians between 2153 and 2553 in the alternate future.
     
  19. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    How do you know that the Xindi attack on Earth didn't occur in the "Azati Prime" timeline? All Daniels says in the episode is that "I've brought you to a monumental moment in history." And the way I see it, the Sphere Builders are going to build more spheres in the prime timeline and thus the Battle of Procyon V will still occur.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No, the future of "Azati Prime" was the original timeline in which the Federation blocked the Sphere Builders. The SBs goaded the Xindi to attack Earth in order to alter that timeline by preventing the Federation from ever existing. As I see it, the "Azati Prime" future was their first attempt to invade our universe and the creation of the Delphic Expanse was the second, creating a different timeline by intervening earlier in history.

    Anyway, I'm missing a step in the logic behind this argument. What does it matter whether the Andorians are still around or where their planet is in its orbit? Procyon is still named Procyon whether they're there or not.