Members of the Federation.

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Deranged Nasat, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's more fun to assume that Daniels is just a big liar. I never trusted that guy.
     
  2. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, none taken. I was hypothesizing a bit, not upset or anything. :)
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I would probably not go to Risa anyway. I'm too "puritanical", I guess. :lol:

    Cestus III, on the other hand...I might give it a shot. Heck, I'd probably live there. You can guess why. ;)
     
  4. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    If United Earth and the Confederated Martian Colonies are two separate member states, then who gets legal jurisdiction over the rest of the Sol System? Not to mention that Earth and Mars orbit Sol at different speeds, putting them at different distances from each other on any given day. With, say Vulcan or Trill, it seems to me that the entire system is exclusive territory of that member state.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That shouldn't matter, because there's no reason to draw borders in empty space. Claimed territories would have to be specific worlds or asteroids and the orbital space around each one. (I like to think that a planet or moon's Hill sphere, the volume within which its gravity outcompetes any other body's, would be the equivalent of its territorial waters.)
     
  6. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Because of baseball? :vulcan:

    Or the Gorn?

    Or baseball-playing Gorn?

    If you're too "puritanical" for the Hedony, you're probably not in for a Gorn Love Slave. :drool:
     
  7. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Has the Denevan state's official name ever been revealed?
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nailed it. :techman:
     
  9. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    To the best of my knowledge, it has not. I like to conjecture, purely for my own enjoyment, that its name is the Commonwealth of Deneva, but that's just me havin' fun.
     
  10. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It has been revealed in Star Trek: Enterprise: Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures: Deneva Colony. That's the official name as of 2163.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Yeah, but colonies often become independent in time. Vega Colony is still called that even after it joins the UFP as a full member, but that may be an informal usage.
     
  12. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Also, apparently by the 22nd century, something has prompted some colonies to retain the word in their official name even after achieving independence and sovereign statehood themselves. The Martian state after independence, but before joining the Federation, remained known as the Confederated Martian Colonies.

    So even though it's not a colony in the political sense anymore -- it's independent, and then it's a separate Federation Member State -- there seems to be some sort of affinity attached to the colonial identity in the 22nd Century that prompts some former colonies to keep the word in their name.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    It's equally possible that Deneva (as in the Federation member-state, not the planet) is simply known as Deneva. Not every nation needs some sort of identifier like "united," "republic," "confederacy," etc.
     
  14. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I suppose in an age of interstellar travel the word carries connotations of "boldly going", of brave pioneers and forward-thinking explorers. People are proud to be known as "colonists", who built their settlements through hard work or that of their direct ancestors, rather than simply inheriting a fully-realized planetary infrastructure?
     
  15. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Meh, I dislike such usage.
     
  16. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    That's certainly possible, though I can't say I like that idea as much. There is a distinction between the state and the territory the state inhabits -- that's why the territory is Germany but the state is the Federal Republic of Germany: It is the particular federal republic associated with the territory. Some sovereign states today like Canada or New Zealand don't distinguish between its state and its territory, but I can't say I much agree with it.

    And the distinction between the state and the territory is particularly notable given Deneva's eventual, er, destiny. I can't help but think linguistically conflating the Denevan state and the planet Deneva will only make the eventual need to relocate even more linguistically awkward than it might otherwise be.

    Makes sense!

    * * *

    Random musing:

    We know the heads of state and government for most of the founding Federation Members...

    United Earth is a parliamentary republic, with a ceremonial President (ENT: To Brave the Storm) and a Prime Minister who is the real leader of the state (ENT: The Good That Men Do; Kobayashi Maru; Beneath the Raptor's Wing), and a Parliament as its legislature (ENT: To Brave the Storm).

    There is the Administrator of the Confederacy of Vulcan (ENT: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing), which succeeded the office of Administrator of the Vulcan High Command (ENT: "The Forge"), which was dissolved when the High Command was dissolved (ENT: "Awakening"). For a brief period, the Administrator of the Confederacy seems to have been initially known as the First Minister of the Confederacy of Vulcan (ENT: Kobayashi Maru) before the name of the office was settled on as "Administrator." We hear reference to the Vulcan Council in ENT: "These Are the Voyages...," and in ENT: The Good That Men Do and ENT: Kobayashi Maru. Seemingly this would be the Vulcan legislature?

    We know the Andorian set-up very well. The Andorian Empire (ENT: "The Andorian Incident") is a constitutional monarchy, with the office of head of state left as the Empty Throne (named after a religious artifact within the beliefs of the most common Andorian religion, Uzaveth worship), the unfilled monarchy left by Thalisar the Last in the 19th century, who united Andor into a parliamentary democracy under the Monarchy and ended clan warfare (Andor: Paradigm). The legislature is the Parliament Andoria (Andor: Paradigm), and the head of government is the Presider of the Parliament Andoria (Andor: Paradigm; The Fall: A Ceremony of Losses), elected by the Parliament from among its members according to which MP has the confidence of the majority of the Parliament (usually equaling the leader of the majority party or of the largest party in the governing coalition) (Typhon Pact: Paths of Disharmony; The Fall: A Ceremony of Losses). The office of Presider seems to have been translated into English as "Chancellor" back in the 22nd century (ENT: "The Aenar"). Political life is dominated by the Modern Progressive and Visionist Parties, with there also being several smaller parties that are either further to the political left or the political right than the two main parties (Typhon Pact: Paths of Disharmony).

    We know that the Alpha Centauri Concordium (ENT: Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures) is led by a popularly-elected Governor (TNG: Losing the Peace). We have no information on the Concordium's legislature.

    So of the founding members, that leaves us with one where we don't know its basic constitutional framework -- Tellar! All we really know about them is that their state is known as the United Planets of Tellar (A Choice of Futures, Tower of Babel). Are they led by a President? Governor? Prime Minister? Chancellor? Minister for the General Administration of the Cabinet? Elder of the State? Minister-President? Sultan? Statsminister? Chief Magistrate? Taoiseach?

    And what of the Tellarite and Alpha Centauri legislatures? Do they have Congresses? Parliaments? General Assemblies? Diets? Councils? Dumas? Majlises? Senates? Houses of Delegates? States-Generals? Althings? Oireachtases? Folkmotes?

    Inquiring minds want to know!
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I know one thing, the inner workings of Tellarite government are probably hilarious to watch. I'd love to get a seat at the gallery when their legislature is in session. Given how blunt Tellarites are...the arguments would be legendary. :lol:
     
  18. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    We know Earth as Sol III, Vulcan as 40 Eridani A, and Alpha Centauri Concordium's capital world being Alpha Centauri III. I'd like to know which in-system position are Tellar Prime and Andor/Andoria.
     
  19. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    The Gateways series mentions an historical High Councillor to the First Seat of Tellar. When the Tellarites were forming their first true world government, Ger, the current (the first?) High Councillor accepted the colAndor Scrolls from Andorian delegates, which were to serve (so the Andorians intended) as inspiration on how to make such a government function (my personal "headcanon" is that Thalisar the Last wrote these ;)). Ger later refused to give them back, saying that they'd been a gift, and he kicked the Andorians offworld. Things were sour after that. (It's not explained whether the Tellarites truly thought the Andorians were being two-faced in wanting them back, or whether this was just an excuse to start a really big argument, IE. the Tellarites were being Civil and the Andorians misread it as true hostility).

    A bit obscure as regards the current continuity, but I've always liked it as a reason for initial cool feelings between Andorian and Tellarite.

    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/ColAndor_Scrolls

    In the modern era, SCE insists that the name of the Tellarite head of state is near-impossible for Humans to pronounce (in the original Tellarite, I assume).

    How about: Big Cheese of Tellar Prime? :p
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    According to Star Charts, Andor is located in the Procyon system, orbiting the eighth planet in that system. I believe Kobayashi Maru and Beneath the Raptor's Wing both mentioned this as well. Multiple sources indicate that Tellar Prime is located in the 61 Cygni system, with Worlds of the Federation identifying it as the system's fifth planet.