Members of the Federation.

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Deranged Nasat, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I agree that taken as a description of a government it's rather stupid - as you say, governments are not about pleasure, and in isolation there's no way a polity would end up with such a name - but given Risa's long-standing dependence on outworld tourism, I think it makes sense as a form of advertising. Risa completely reshaped itself (almost literally given the planet's artificial climate controls) into a world that played upon a reputation for free sexuality, erotic hospitality and other steamy things ending in "ity" (except virginity...). Given that, I can see them adopting the name "Hedony" as part of their efforts to promote the idea that their world is your number-one holiday destination. In a sense, we could argue that the role of the Risian government is to encourage pursuit of pleasure - alien tourists' pleasure, not their own. And that's because the planet's economy and society have become so dependent on the "pleasure planet" angle that they have to stay competitive and perfect or it's over for them. :)

    But then, I have an obsessive urge to make things fit and justify them where I can ;)
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I suspect they fell prey to the B5 syndrome: running out of names for governments, so they just started casting at straws for names they haven't used yet. ;)

    And by that I mean: On B5, all five major governments had to have different names of course. Some of them made a form of sense: Earth ALLIANCE. Centauri REPUBLIC. Some just sounded kind of weird: Narn REGIME. And some made no sense at all: Minbari FEDERATION (federation? Really? In a government with nothing but Minbari?), Vorlon EMPIRE (that makes even less sense...what is it about the Vorlons that qualifies as an empire? :guffaw: ).

    As for Risa: Like I said, of course everyone KNOWS that Risa is a pleasure planet. But that is Risa's industry, not its government - they shouldn't have to advertise that they're a pleasure planet, because everybody already knows they are one. It's not as if it's a secret, after all.

    As for what to call their planetary state, they could have come up with more realistic and non-threatening words to use, like 'Association' or something like that. Calling their government a 'Hedony' just makes it sound like some 70's porn flick. Risans don't spend literally every waking moment having sex, do they? (I mean, it's not like they're Deltans... ;) )
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  3. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Not just the major ones! Among the League nations we have:

    An Accordance
    An Autocracy
    A 'Civility'
    A Commonwealth
    A Confederacy
    A Conglomerate
    A Freehold
    A Gerontocracy
    An 'Intelligence'
    A Matriarchate
    A Republic
    A Syndicracy
    A Theocracy

    I think they must have a list, and each government name can only be claimed by one nation, and new arrivals have to settle for whatever's left ;).
     
  4. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    It's amusing, I'll grant that. I think what you should say, though is "planetary state" not "planetary government".
     
  5. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ What's the diff? :confused:
     
  6. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    The state is the legal entity which possesses sovereignty; territory; a legal monopoly on the use of force within that territory. The government is the institution that runs the state. Governments come and go, but the state still exists even if a government falls.

    Think of it as the difference between a car and the engine (or, if you prefer, a starship and a warp core). The state is the car; the government is the engine. The engine might get swapped out, but the car remains.
     
  7. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Yup. This doesn't exactly match what I meant, but for example, Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland (which in modern day is not "Commonwealth of Scotland" or "Sub-Republic of Scotland" or anything like that) has an executive branch officially called the "Scottish Government" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Government. But suppose it did have a generic "Republic of..." state name, then for the purpose of this thread you'd have to correctly say "the Scottish state not the Scottish government is the Republic of Scotland". If you said "the Scottish government is the Republic of Scotland", then you would confuse people on whether you mean the executive branch or the country.
     
  8. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Commodore Commodore

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    Well, we have federations here on Earth with nothing but humans. It just implies that several individual Minbari states joined together to form a central government. Or if you prefer, maybe they use that name to represent a federation between the Warrior, Religious and Worker castes.
     
  9. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Some of the background and RPG material justifies it like this; the various clans were independent nations often in conflict, some theocracies, some militant states, many others subjects of the first two; Valen solidified the three caste system by raising the worker clans to (supposed) equal standing and assigning nations to one of the camps. Mostly a convenient means of organizing them all during the war for survival against the Shadows.

    And as for the Vorlons, while I think Mr. Laser Beam is almost certainly right - it was just a case of pulling various names out of the air, regardless of whether it really made sense - we could make a case that it's a form of subtle foreshadowing? In that, the Vorlons call themselves an empire because in their mind they've claimed responsibility and authority over the younger nations around them? People looking at the Vorlons might think "where's the subject populations?" My dear observer, you're part of one, you just don't know it. They're a hegemonic empire, not a territorial empire.
     
  10. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Me, too, would be interested in what the Pakled and Voth states are called.

    As an addition to the list of members:
    * Dremans: Drema IV has been a Federation protectorate since 2368. (SCE: Progress)
    * Xanno: immigrant species from the Delta Quadrant; adopted homeworld New Xannon admitted in 2229 (TOS: The Delta Anomaly)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Pakleds probably have NO name for their government or state.
     
  12. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Yes, I imagine Pakleds are probably either anarchist by default or clannish, with little coordinating authority outside or above the family group.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I looked through Places of Exile to see if I established a name for the Voth state, but all I used was "the Voth." Which makes me wonder if maybe that is the name for their state -- if "the Voth" is not just the name of their species but the name of the larger state/society they belong to. Which might actually make sense given what an authoritarian state it is -- the state is what defines them and they are simply components of it.
     
  14. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    The 24th century Xindi need a state name.
     
  15. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    They need a lot more than that. They need a novel, or a novel series!

    I believe I missed a member: Arcturus. Not Arcturus the seedy trading planet on the triborder, but the planet at the real Arcturus where Arcturians come from. Arcturians have shown up affiliated with the UFP on several occasions.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Yeah, that old Vonda McIntyre placement of Arcturus on the border of UFP, Klingon, and Romulan territories is pretty much irreconcilable with the Star Charts version of interstellar cartography. The real Arcturus is on the opposite side of the Federation from those powers.

    Of course, the books have already posited a "Beta Rigel" with a soundalike name. Maybe there's a "Beta Arcturus."
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    This is kind of Jonny-come-lately, but I just want to chime in as a voice of dissent on the name of the Risian state. William Leisiner's TNG: Losing the Peace made it clear that there's a deep spiritual/religious basis to the Risians' openness with regards to sexuality and pleasure; as such, it makes sense to me that their culture might chose as their English translation of their state name a term that, to Humans, carries connotations of irresponsibility, decadence, etc., which simply don't exist in Risian culture. So on that level, the name "Risian Hedony" makes perfect sense to me. They're declaring that theirs is a society dedicated to maximizing happiness, and it reflects an absence of puritanical values.

    Interesting. It reminds me of the ongoing debate Ta-Nehisi Coates is moderating on his blog at The Atlantic over the meaning of the term "totalitarian." He quotes Anne Applebaum's Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe, which is in turn quoting Mussolini: "Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."

    They are all the Voth, and that's all there is to it. Everything within the Voth, nothing outside the Voth, nothing against the Voth.
     
  18. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    A few more members, from Spirit Walk (though both of these may have left with Kerovi, since they were part of the secessionist movement):

    Ysa: Natives have tusks.
    Parnasi: A native consists of three beings operating together. Influential in their sector (presumably far from the core worlds)

    A four-armed planetary leader is also at the conference in question; his people want to leave, but he and his governmental advisors don't. I'm wondering if he's Terrelian, since some Terrelians have four arms (almost as confusing as Ktarians, these Terrelians), and seem to be potential UFP members.

    The same books also feature a vaguely avian humanoid race who are said to be relatively recent members; name not given, so we could match them to one of our existing named-but-nothing-more worlds on the current list, if we want to be conservative.

    In A Time to Love:

    Slyggians, mentioned alongside Humans, Andorians and Vulcans as Federation members. Apparently they're an alien race from the DC 'verse that look a bit like Triexians/Edoans. Since this seems to be a joke and this is the only mention of them, I'm not including them and am stubbornly pretending Picard said "Triexian" or something. ;) Such is my whim; I have spoken.
     
  19. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well... you could say that elementary students now build and launch rockets, but you would probably mean a small kit from Estes, not that they were trying to send people into orbit. Maybe Daniels meant some equivalent, like a simple kit that students assemble that demonstrates a basic anti-time setup and maybe causes a small plant to ungrow or demonstrates an electrical current flowing backward or something similar.
     
  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    About Risa: I'm sure there are reasons, in-universe, why their government might be named "Hedony". I just thought that, OUT of universe, it sounded a bit silly. No offense was intended. :alienblush: