Measure of a Man

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Starbreaker, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. bryce

    bryce Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's in my Top Ten list of "All Time Greatest Trek Episodes" as well...top 5 even...MofaM encapsulates the ideals that Trek represents...it's core ethics and values...

    And Trek is NOT just about epic space wars - it's about exploring the human condition...it's about deep philosophical and moral concepts...it's an intellectual tv show, not just "Wagon Train to the Stars"...

    I think later Trek creators have, sadly, forgotten that.
     
  2. TS-1838-SWATH

    TS-1838-SWATH Commander Red Shirt

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    Its one of T.N.G.'s 10 best
    People tend to forget that its an allegory on racist views.
    What first jumped out at me is an allegory on slavery, but I see the larger racial discrimination aspect now that you pointed it out Red Ranger.
     
  3. Yassim

    Yassim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He does a great bit of acting when he starts his summation - he fumbles and mumbles and isn't convincing at all, and leads the scene into this emotional place where it feels like Picard is losing, like he can't pull this together after Riker's big finish. And then he warms up... and ends with the Eye of the Tiger and "There it sits!" Stewart is awesome.
     
  4. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't agree with that. He was a fine actor before Hollywood had even heard of him. Got any examples, because I honestly can't see where you're coming from.
     
  5. LadyPenelope

    LadyPenelope Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Totally agree, this is one of my favourite epidsodes because it's about so much more than just space battles and aliens (which are good too, but not as meaningful) :)
     
  6. Hawkeye_90

    Hawkeye_90 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It was put in the top ten greatest star trek episides list I just saw, it may have even been in the top 5. I would like to point out that this is a season 2 episode. Now I haven't seen every episode, but it seems that a lot of people don't care for season 2, and it doesn't make sense because this episode along with a few others is so epic that it is one of the best in the series.
     
  7. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    'Measure of a Man' is a brilliant episode; definately in my TNG Top 10. As people are already saying, Picard's speeches in favour of Data were riviting, and of course poor 'toaster' Data is just a stand in for slavery, or racism. The court room setting may now seem a little obvious, but it was still excellent.

    I also love 'The Offspring.' It wasn't a classic like 'Measure' was, but the reocurring theme of android sentience really had more of an emotional kick. Lal malfunctioning made me cry, especially if the episode is watched after 'Measure.'
     
  8. zephramc

    zephramc Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not sure why Clegg feels that Stewart sucked. He was a stage actor way before he appeared on film, so I'd assume you'd need good acting chops for that. The only shows prior to TNG that I remember Stewart from were the movies Dune and Excalibur. They weren't big parts as I recall, but Stewart did fine and was his usual classy self.
     
  9. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All gushing aside, and not dinging anyones performance, but this episode is highly overrated.

    Good drama and great acting does not an epic episode make.
     
  10. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon TheSeeker Premium Member

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    Holy zombie thread Batman!

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    A five year old discussion wasn't complete unless you weighed in to say that it was overrated?
     
  12. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    This thread is undead. But since it's back...

    For me, the episode represents TNG at its finest. The only thing I can't stand about it is when a supposedly experienced Starfleet judge pathetically whines, "I've got to make a ruling!" Minor nitpick, though, of an outstanding episode from start to finish.
     
  13. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just testing the waters to see if anyone wanted to talk about the episode.

    So I did a search and posted a comment in the applicable thread rather than start another one.

    I thought that's what was supposed to be done.
     
  14. PaleMoonlight

    PaleMoonlight Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    This episode rules, possibly the best "courtroom drama" ep along with The Drumhead.
     
  15. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Drumhead is lightyears ahead of Measure of a Man IMO.

    PICARD: You know, there some words I've known since I was a school boy. With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today

    PICARD: Maybe. But she, or someone like her, will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish, spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mister Worf, that is the price we have to continually pay.

    Trek is at it's finest when it is relevant in today's climate.

    This is especially true nowadays with the flash in the pan media and social networking.
     
  16. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    But political climates change. "Measure of a Man" has to do with universals. What does it mean to have consciousness? Can anyone prove they're conscious?
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You revived a four year old threat to say that?
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I think staff around here generally prefers that you start a new thread, if the previous one is more than 6 months old. I often try to see what shows up in the subforum's list of topics (which I think are set by default to the last 30 days), and if nothing shows up, I'll start a new one. Some of the subforums have light traffic, so I'll look back a little further then.
    [​IMG]
    They won't put you in the brig unless you make a habit of necromancy I think. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  19. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to bump the "episode of the week" thread? That one is only a few months old.

    http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=207220
     
  20. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All very interesting questions posed by this episode.

    "sentient" is applicable too.

    None of which needed to be determined by this trial however, as Star Fleet already accepted Data's application to SFA and commissioned him as an Officer.

    Do all Officer's have to submit to medical research?

    I think Data's rights as a commissioned officer should have nulled any need for this trial.
     

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