Measure of a Man

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Starbreaker, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I watched Measure of a Man for the first time in several years yesterday. I think this is one of TNG's best episodes. Considering it's basically a courtroom drama episode set in the 24th century, I think that's kind of cool. I'm usually not a big fan of any TV show or movie where people just sit around and talk, but this episode was nicely done, and I didn't even think for a second that it was twenty years old.
     
  2. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    It's one of mine too. I really liked Phillipa. Of all of Picard's women, she was my favorite and the best fit for him.

    One of my biggest TNG disappointments is they never brought McBroom back.
     
  3. Unwrapped

    Unwrapped Continuity Spackle Moderator

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    It's definitely one of TNG's better eps, although I do think it could use a little improvement. Maddox's threat to remove Data seems like more of a plot device than a genuine problem regarding his sentience, since it is clear he was in the minority even when Data asked to enroll at the academy. And it becomes evident very quickly that fully proving Data's non-sentience would be extremely difficult, so Maddox has to go for the ruling that he is ultimately property of Starfleet.

    * shrugs * I think this plot line was done a little better in "The Offspring." But the characters are handled very well for the most part. I don't think Maddox is exactly bigoted per se, but I think he'd be a better character if he wasn't presented as a voice in the wilderness.
     
  4. Too Much Fun

    Too Much Fun Commodore Commodore

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    Nice to see this episode getting some love. One of my top 5 favourites. This exchange between Picard and Philippa is probably the most hilarious way of setting up a date I've ever heard:

    Picard: "PHILIPPA. DINN-UH."
    Philippa: "You buying?"
    *He NODS*

    He doesn't bother asking her, "would you like to have dinner with me, tonght?". No, he just says "PHILIPPA, DINN-UH", like he's a caveman or Tarzan or something. :lol:
     
  5. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

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    I actually think this is Next Gen's first truly GREAT episode. It holds up extremely well. It's got as much continuity as Next Gen episodes were likely to have. It had a real issue. And the conflict between the characters didn't feel nearly as forced as it often did on the ship where everybody got along all the time. :)
     
  6. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    I remember liking it quite a bit but I haven't seen it in years. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any TNG episode in years. I'm going to have to do something about that!
     
  7. john titor

    john titor Captain

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    One of the best trek episodes ever and where its at imo as regards trek ie high minded intellectual concepts. The script writing is amazing. Picard has some incredibly eloquent lines, which you don't see normally in tv shows with most of them being dumbed down. Its so good it was even used in one of my philosophy lectures. infinity/10.
     
  8. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Great episode. I actually think these talky episodes, in which Picard prevails with a rousing speech on a moral or intellectual point, are usually TNG's most effective.

    Stewart can do these in his sleep, and it's great to give him something meaty as opposed to the more sci-fi/action oriented episodes. He really looks like he's relishing them, which is wonderful to see. Episodes like The Drumhead, First Duty, Devil's Due, Who Watches the Watchers and The Offspring are some of my all-time Trek favourites.
     
  9. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    ^I couldn't agree more. Stewart was at his best when he was given those kinds of scripts.
     
  10. john titor

    john titor Captain

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    I also think the speeches added a nice eccentricity, or layer of complexity depending on which view you take, to Picards character.
     
  11. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I think one of the purposes of true "science fiction" is to examine the human condition from an outside perspective, and to discuss what it means to be human. This episode has that in spades. I put it in the top ten Trek episodes of all time.

    I still get chills when Picard says, "Starfleet was founded to seek out new life. Well there it sits. Waiting."
     
  12. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Which suddenly turned him into a "great actor." The funny thing is, when ever he had to actually act, he sucked.
     
  13. Ro_Laren

    Ro_Laren Commodore Commodore

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    This has always been one of my least favorite episodes... I think it is because over the years Star Trek will have episodes trying to show that androids/holograms are sentient beings with souls and I just can't agree with that.
     
  14. Evil_Kirkneivel

    Evil_Kirkneivel Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    “Your honor, Starfleet was founded to seek out new life, well THERE IT SITS…waiting.”
    - Picard

    Yes, I love those Picard moments. As others said, many of the best episodes are the ones where he gets some meatier lines.
     
  15. Alrik

    Alrik Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would have to agree. This is a really good Ep. Everyone is talking about Stewart, and I would have to go along with that, but Frakes did a really good job in this one as well.
     
  16. K-Star

    K-Star Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I love this episode. I hate Maddox cuz he's such an evil bastard towards Data. It's great to see him pretty much get pwned in the courtroom :D
     
  17. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    I think people who object to the argument, often posited in ST, that androids or holograms are sentient are missing the point.

    For the record, I think as we explore sentience, we will indeed have a more expansive view of what that means in the future. So I can believe that an android, given the right circumstances, could indeed be a sentient being.

    Now, the thing is androids and holograms are stand-ins for whatever minority is threatened in our society. That's because there are too many people who think gays don't deserve certain rights. Or still believe members of certain ethnic groups aren't "the same" as everyone else, and therefore, not deserving of the same rights under the law.

    The ep is an allegory on racial discrimination. It really isn't meant to be interpreted literally. And it is one of my fave Data eps.

    I wonder if Maddox was ever successful in recreating an android with a positronic brain. And I wonder if he did, if he'd design one that looked like him, the way Dr. Soong did. Probably someone's already written a novel based on that possibility.

    Red Ranger
     
  18. K-Star

    K-Star Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Read Immortal Coil. And no, the android did not look like Maddox. ;)
     
  19. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks, K-Star. I'll check it out. -- RR
     
  20. Nerdius Maximus

    Nerdius Maximus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's one of my favorite episodes. I always preferred the shows that weren't action-oriented, because that wasn't what Star Trek was about to me. Sure, a little sprinkled in here and there is cool, but to me, that's where they went wrong with TNG movies. Too much action, not enough depth. And they didn't even bother to build up to the action, they just jumped right in.