Maybe they should’ve used the Borg for Nemesis

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Khan 2.0, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The klingons were used as the main villains multiple times for TOS films. Maybe they should’ve used the borg again for Nemesis in like an indirect sequel to FC (to help ensure sizable BO - anyway the borg were far more Picards ‘nemesis’ than any whiney clone).

    What story though? obviously not another earth invasion thing. couldve instead explored the borg origins like in that Manga comic. Prometheus style opening flashback scene of first Borg created ... then flash forward to the near to be decommissioned Ent E (like VI would be set good few years after previous film) sent to investigate a massive anomaly in far reaches of unexplored space that is gradually approaching federation territory. Ent E intercepts and discovers huge Giger like biomechanical type sleeper ship. Away team of Picard, Data, 7of9 and red shirts go over and after much Q Who searching, turns out that the big ship seems to be where the first borg came from - the very first borg vessel (tying in with the opening). Away team become infected by black goo type stuff, red shirts turn into zombie like humans - borg without implants. 7of9 becomes like the Borg Queen/Locutus. Double act of Picard and Data manage to escape and uncover the big shocking twist of the movie (that would be kept under wraps) - the Voyager 6 probe. (yes the old Vger was the borg theory that Shatner explored in The Return. The last movie tying in with the 1st type thing - movies come full circle deal)

    At the climax, its revealed the Ent was lured there to enable this Vger/Borg to become active. The ship fully activates and totally disables Enterprise then gears up to transwarp earth to assimilate humanity like Vger. Picard desperately tries to ‘reach’ 7of9 and prevent her from fulfilling her ‘destiny’ and she manages to overcome the borg and give Picard enough time for a last chance. The only thing that can be done is if the severely damaged, barely working Enterprise warp crashes into the ship (like the Kelvin and the Prometheus). Picard evacs everyone apart from himself and Data to set collision course/guide into the big ship George Kirk style - Data places little patch on picard and beams him off (“goodbye“) and then he steers damaged Ent into the borg ship destroying it. Both 7of 9 and Data dead (no B4)...USS Excelsior picks up crew and takes earth…Absent friends scene…then TNG crew are given new ship in space dock (like at end of TVH) - Enterprise F
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  2. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like Nemesis a lot more than I'm supposed to I think. I like the Borg a lot (obviously) but I thought by the end of Voyager they were getting used too often, and weren't always the incredibly scary threat they should've been. The only thing I'd have wanted to change would've been to give the supporting cast more to do. Especially Beverly, who's one of my favorites. I'd have loved to have had the Troi/Riker wedding have finally sparked romance with Picard and Bev.
    Your plot does sound really good though, I'm sure I'd have enjoyed it. Data and 7of9 both dying sounds like a bit of a downer though.
     
  3. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    The Romulans should have been the main antagonist. After nine movies, it was time to give them their due. But no, we get a clone. When ST09 was announced to have a Romulan villain, I was intrigued. But then Nero happened. :shifty:
     
  4. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You had be until you killed Data again.
     
  5. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You had me until Seven reared her boobs again.
     
  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Another problem with using Seven is she'd need to be heavily established within the film for mainstream audiences who are unfamiliar with the character before she's killed off. Not a good idea when it's supposed to be a TNG film starring those actors.
     
  7. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think he meant for Seven to appear simply because of her connection to the Borg.

    They were really stupid to use Jeri Ryan for sex appeal, since she is an incredibly talented actress, that pretty much carried the show along with Robert Picardo for the last 3 seasons of Voyager. My favourite Seven episodes were the ones where she is wearing a Starfleet uniform, or something else other than "The Catsuit". She comes across the best to me when she is a smart, sweet woman who happens to look amazingly hot.
     
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Believe it or not people aren't so collectively stupid they can't figure out who someone is just because they haven't watched all the material they've appeared in.

    I watched ST3 before I watched most of TOS... I was still able to figure out who Sarek was.

    Not that I'm a big fan of the proposed storyline. There was nothing wrong with using Romulans as the villains.... except that's really not what they did in Nemesis. You want a Romulan villain, have Tomalak, who was disgraced by his lost encounters with Picard, despite a sterling record in the Dominion war was refused promotion, and leads a military coup against the government.

    Then you have a villain that has a real motive against Picard and the Federation, with some backstory, while not overwhelming to a newcomer, that would enhance the characterization.
     
  9. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  10. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I was always surprised that they didn't work Q into the movies, given how popular the character was . . . .
     
  11. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Eh, I always thought his character arc ended perfectly with All Good Things. I really wish Voyager had left well enough alone. Death Wish was a good episode, but the Q and the Grey and Q2 kinda demeaned the whole Continuum into a dysfunctional sitcom family.
     
  12. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    The problem with using the Borg for Nemesis rather than First Contact is that by the time Nemesis was in theaters, the Borg had already been used heavily on Voyager. People were sick of them.

    Romulans, by contact, were still something of a blank slate and thus more appetizing to a movie audience. The problem is that the Romulans ended up being depicted not as the villains of Nemesis but as willing participants in Shinzon's plans for genocide until Donatra decided to stand up to him.

    --Sran
     
  13. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    thats true. the borg shouldve been reserved for movies only after the success of FC..
     
  14. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    uh? i wanted to edit my OP slightly but now cant do it?
     
  15. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    That would've painted Voyager into a corner. As the ship was in the Delta Quadrant- a region of space the Borg were known to inhabit- it would not have made sense to exclude the Borg from television given that Voyager was in only its third season by the time FC was in theaters.

    Nemesis would've been fine with Romulans as the primary antagonists. The production team screwed up by trying to shoe-horn in concepts from TWOK and TUC instead of giving the film its own identity. Of course, that may also have had something to do with hiring a director who knew almost nothing about the series.

    My lasting memory of that person is a photo of him trying to explain something to Patrick Stewart, with the latter trying not to look mortified at how poorly the former understood whatever the scene was supposed to convey.

    --Sran
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Some Trek fans went absolutely apeshit over seeing Khan twice in thirty-years. Imagine the venom of using the Borg twice in a three movie span. :lol:
     
  17. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    wonder if there was outrage at using the klingons again and again in TOS movies? (and Generations)
    i dont think there was - then again there wasnt any net to check, just the letters page of Starlog, Starburst and TOFC magazine :D
     
  18. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Not that I recall. I think a key difference with the Klingons is that they were portrayed differently in each of their appearances. The Klingons in TMP were a blank slate, as we've only Mark Lenard's brief cameo from which to judge them before they were digitized by V'Ger (amazing that V'Ger pops up in this thread, too).

    TSFS depicted the Klingon crew that went to Genesis as a group of rogues. We don't know that their actions were in keeping with their government's goals. Ambassador Kamarag made an impassioned plea on their behalf in his efforts to extradite Kirk in TVH, but it's clear his goal was the eventual indictment of Kirk by the Klingons for his crimes rather than vindication for Kruge and his men.

    TFF again featured a rogue Klingon and his crew, but Klaa's motivation stemmed from his wanting to make a name for himself by defeating an accomplished adversary in combat. He stood down and apologized after Korrd called him out for his behavior.

    TUC showed the Klingons on the brink of ruin and perhaps the extinction of their entire way of life (if not the species as a whole) because of an ecological disaster. Chancellor Gorkon had the courage to ask for Federation help amidst likely protests from his advisors, help that almost never came to fruition due to treasonous acts by people he trusted.

    Generations featured the Duras sisters, known Federation antagonists ostracized from the Klingon Empire due to their attempted removal of Gowron from office.

    FC introduced a new aspect of the Borg by introducing the Borg Queen, but as she appeared in Voyager several times (albeit played by a different actress for most of those appearances), it's not likely anything new could've been learned about the Borg by having them in another movie.

    TUC did a lot to flesh out the Klingons and actually stands as my favorite portrayal of their people, as I find the constant rhetoric of honor and glory seen in TNG and DS9 to be old and tired.

    --Sran
     
  19. Captain Jed R.

    Captain Jed R. Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That would be awesome (in a sad-things-weren't-better way) to see.
     
  20. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^I think this is it.

    --Sran
     

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