Matt Smith's Departure Confirmed.

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by StCoop, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think (and I've been saying) that is, in fact, the gameplan - that the BBC/Moffat are making plans to wrap up the entire saga. The crack in the TARDIS window (also shown in his 'tomb'), the 'tomb' having the same desktop theme as the current TARDIS console room, the Valeyard being name-dropped for the first time in the new series, our first clues to the Doctor's final death ("A relatively minor skirmish...was just too much for the old man") at Trenzalore - all point to it.
     
  2. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you really think the BBC would wrap up Doctor Who forever and ever because of dialogue in "The Deadly Assassin" nearly forty years ago, there's a bridge in Brooklyn Steven Moffat would love to sell you.

    I could see Moffat deciding that he wants to be the one to address the regeneration limit because there's dramatic potential there for a season-long story arc. I could also see the show ignoring it entirely because the mainstream audience won't care, they just want to see Doctor Who go on.l
     
  3. StCoop

    StCoop Commodore Commodore

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  4. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We shall see, Allyn. We shall see. At the very least, I agree Moffat intends to tackle the regeneration limit issue with this next Doctor.
     
  5. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The BBC press release is worded in such a way that he could turn up at the start of the Christmas special to regenerate (using footage filmed before) and then not actually be in it?
     
  6. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was saving this up for a massive rant on my blog but I'll vent here as I've seen it suggested everywhere today.

    I'd fucking hate a female Doctor. New Who has routinely shown women live life as consequence-free bitches that treat men like total shit, while the guys eat it up like pussies. See Mickey and Rory. Captain Jack is the only strong male character we've seen, and this is likely due to his general lack of interest in women.

    Having a female Doctor would just cement everything I hate about the gender politics in New Who. No doubt she'd be sexually aggressive in a way that any guy would be considered a rapist by society for behaving.

    I look at River Song, and I see exactly how a female Doctor would be written. Fuck, fuck, fuck no. I bet a female Dotor would be able to slap the male companion with total impunity.
     
  7. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think your em.. issues are best worked out on your blog.
     
  8. StCoop

    StCoop Commodore Commodore

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    Or with his Mommy. (THE FILTHY WHORE!!!!)

    I really wish there was a way to block posters on this forum.
     
  9. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Feel free to actually address my points. New Who's gender politics are completely messed up, and I'm far from the only one that's noticed it.
     
  10. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think that would require a different sort of Doctor than me - your actual point isn't really about Doctor Who it just uses that as a vehicle.
     
  11. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It is directly about Doctor Who and it dates back as early as Rose's treatment of Mickey in S1, reaching boiling point with Amy and River's treatment of men. I'm far, far from the only one that's noticed it so don't act like it's some unqiue complaint.

    Look at how female companions slap The Doctor or their partner and tell me that's how a man hitting a woman would be portrayed. Or even something like Clara telling The Doctor he has a nice arse. I merely ask for better representation. It's making women come across as being out to humiliate men, and men being people that should always put up with horrendous treatment without question. Neither are healthy, and neither should be portrayed as positive to children.

    Sarah-Jane Adventures easily has the best written female characters of the modern Whoniverse. An older woman and children aren't given the sexuality element of gender politics so they're written as people.
     
  12. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Commander Red Shirt

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    It'll never happen, but I think David Mitchell would make a great Doctor.
     
  13. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Of course, I'm sure the fact that the Doctor doesn't want to hang around weak, clingy women has nothing to do with it. Anytime a woman doesn't take crap from a man people start claiming that she's a bitch. If she has an emotion, she's weak. So that means women can't get mad or cry, because then they are a bad representation of an entire gender. The Doctor himself has done some horrible stuff, and he's also cried. Yet no one calls the Doctor a bad representation of all men created by TV and Movies.

    Of course, you have to completely look waaaaay to hard at a joke in a tv show and claim that it's a sexist representation of women. I don't look at James Bond and think "Man, he's a horrible representation of all males, I think they need to change him to be more realistic" because that defeats the whole purpose. It's entertainment. If I wanted to watch reality, I'd turn the tv off and do stuff. Entertainment is the chance to envision something we'd never do ourselves.
     
  14. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Jack doesn't lack interest in women (well not until torchwood anyway) as the character's portrayed in Who he's clearly very interested in Rose, and Martha, aw heck he's interested in everybody!

    The comment about strong male companions. There was a time when I thought this, but to be honest I think you probably have to go back as far as Ian to find such a character. (I'm going to ignore Steven, Ben and co because I just haven't seen enough of them.) Anyway:

    Jamie. He's great, but let's be honest, a lot of the time he is the comic relief, he's often portrayed as a bit of a fool, especially by Zoe.

    Harry. Again played as the fool whilst the Doctor or Sarah Jane save the day.

    Adric. Whiny duplicitous little shite (and he's grown on me because of that) but again hardly a strong male role model.

    Turlough: Coward, and again duplicitous, though as with the others he does have his moments (but then so do Rory and Micky).

    Really are the modern male companions that different? The trouble is that, since Pertwee,heck even Troughton to an extent, the Doctor has been the male lead of the show, so the male companion has, for the most part, needed to be downgraded somewhat, or even dispensed with entirely.

    Here's a wacky notion, if we did have a female Doctor, would we then get a strong male companion? A male Ace or Leela, or Sarah Jane, or Donna, or Amy?

    It's really dangerous to rule anything out in advance. A lesson I learned with Daniel Craig many years ago, and why when they announced the 11th Doctor was a child I didn't rant and rave, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

    Don't get me wrong, if they hired Amanda Holden as a female Doctor I'd be wary, but if they hire someone like Olivia Coleman, someone with the acting chops for the role, well I won't let the fact she wears a skirt put me off.

    As for the slapping, I think you do have a bit of a point there, but Who is far from being alone in this regard.

    As for women humiliating men, well for all that Rose took the mickey (ahem) with Mickey, you could argue she was as poorly treated by the Doctor. We're talking a man who leads women on here, makes them imagine they can have a relationship with him they never can. Now that's insidious!
     
  15. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My quarrel isn't merely with the portrayal of men or women, but the portrayal of their relationships and interaction. It is found throughout Moffat's work, in Coupling and even Jekyll. There is a definite "battle of the sexes" edge to it that was not in the classic series.

    River is modern feminism warped beyond belief. She seems constantly out to humiliate men, both sexually and emotionally. In no way would I ever describe Mickey and Rose's, Amy and Rory's or River and The Doctor's relationships as remotely healthy. All feature a woman humiliating a man while the man is expected to just take it. If people think that's alright, or that there is no trend, then so be it. But I strongly disagree.
     
  16. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    The new series does a lot of things that weren't in the classic series (and vice versa). the classic series used to be in black and white as well...
     
  17. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Filming in black and white wasn't a creative decision, it was a technical limitation. The gender politics in New Who could stand to be severely improved.

    It was the same thing with Sally and Larry's relationship in Blink too.
     
  18. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    More like a financial limitation.

    Oddly enough I have no problems with how men and women portrayed in DW.
     
  19. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, I do and if people would rather block me than have their opinions mildly challenged then so be it.

    Think Clara is awesome but I'd definitely lose the stock Moffat flirty banter next series. It's just tired.
     
  20. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    River isn't "feminism", she's a "psychopath". There IS a big difference. She does what she wants, when she wants, and she doesn't recognize any authority, even the Doctor's.

    And no, the Doctor and his companions aren't going to have "healthy" relationships. He's a madman with a box. He picks out people who have problems for various reasons and then gets them into a ton of trouble. He's the ultimate "Peter Pan". Also, healthy relationships are boring and don't make for great drama. And the men don't just "take it". The Doctor needs friends to help keep him in check, and the other guys are jealous because they are worried that they can't compete with the Doctor. He is, essentially, using his companions to keep from being lonely, but in the end, he always loses them.

    Why do they punch or slap each other? Because it's what the audience wants and it's funny.

    You say you want a "realistic" portrayal of a female companion. So, what is "realistic" if you don't consider a relationship with a strong woman normal?