MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by bigdaddy, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. SantaEddie74

    SantaEddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's the total number of lives - the actual human beings - that's important, not the completely meaningless and artificial metric you just came up with.

    We still had almost 11,000 deaths from gun murders during that particular year, more than all the American servicemen and women who have died in both Afghanistan and Iraq combined since 9/11. How many guns exist in the total population per gun murder means absolutely nothing. You might as well have mentioned invisible elephants or Mogwai and it would have been just as valid.
     
  2. gturner

    gturner Admiral

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    The deaths per gun is relevant to the claim that murder rates are correlated, if not driven, by guns. If Canadians had the same prevelance of guns as the US, and the murder rate was a function of the number of guns, then the US would still have 11,000 gun deaths and Canada would have about 152. Conversely, we could reduce the number of US guns by a factor of eight for the same gun ownership rate as Venezuela, which is less than a fourth that of Switzerland and a third that of Sweden, yet Venezuela has 53 murders a day, which for the US would be 220,000 a year. An eighth as many guns per capita, 20 times as many murders per capita.
     
  3. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I had a pet rock once that ran away. I was surprised, because it was sedimentary.
     
  4. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    A better comparrison is homicides using a gun per capita.

    And whilst it is true that the US doesn't have the highest homicide (using a gun) rate per capitia in the world, it has the highest rate per capitia amongest the develeoped world.

    So if we use one of the stats posted above about gun deaths. UK 8, US 10 728 now as the UK population is roughly a fifth of the US comparring them directly is meaningless you have to muliple or divide one by 5 to get a more accurate comparrison accounting for population. So that would be around 40 vs 10 728 when population is factored in.

    The UK has very tight guns laws, the US doesn't. Conclusion tight gun laws lead to few homicides by guns.

    As for other factors, the same video games/ movies etc.. are available in the UK as the US. Yet the homicide rate is no where near a fifth of the US homicide rate. So the effects of these would appear to be minimal.
     
  5. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Huh? What did I do? :confused:
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  6. SantaEddie74

    SantaEddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    People such as myself get a bit tired of hearing weak statistical excuses made for roughly 10,000 gun murders happening in this country each and every year. ”Well if the U.S. had the population of Britain or Belgium and there were just [insert random number] guns per person in the country and the Moon was in its Gibbous phase with the Comet Kohoutek traveling through the Constellation Lyra....”

    Just stop it. By almost any metric the U.S. has one of the highest gun murder rates in the world and the worst in the advanced industrialized world. Every year we lose more people to pointless gun violence than we have in Afghanistan and Iraq *combined* since 9/11. Every year. All the numbers cooking and deft twisting of them to try to make them sound nowhere near as bad isn't going to change reality and we can't base our national gun crime policies on manipulating the numbers to protect the gun lobby's interests.

    10,000 people a year is a statistic that's far more important than what the gun lobby wants and thinks and we as a society need to grow up and face what our culture has become over the years.
     
  7. SantaEddie74

    SantaEddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    For the record that reply wasn't directed against posters like MacLeod but the gturners and others from other threads who've taken similar positions.
     
  8. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hopefully he can even sue whoever made it up in his name to make people believe it was his quote.
     
  9. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Here's a metric that I just made up that I think is relevant

    Gun deaths per person who think that guns are a right bestowed by God.
     
  10. siskokid888

    siskokid888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Here's my argument for gun control - 20 children dead.

    Go ahead, NRA slaves, make your argument.
     
  11. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^So by that token, we should also ban Bud and Chevy because a drunk driver t-boned another car and killed someone? Perhaps we should also take knives out of the kitchen since someone got stabbed to death.
     
  12. siskokid888

    siskokid888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^20 dead children
     
  13. Finngle Bells

    Finngle Bells Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ "20 dead children" isn't an argument. It's more of a remark. If you want to make an argument for a gun ban, write more than "20 dead children".
     
  14. Rhaven

    Rhaven Captain Captain

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    This whole situation is just so sad. My heart goes out to all the families.
     
  15. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    20 children killed with guns/weapons that should never make it into the hands of civilians.


    What reason to own a gun is like "having to drive to work/transport things" or "having to cut my food"?
    And what reason is to own more than one gun, and even rifles, automatic weapons, and tons of ammunition?
    A gun isn't a tool, it's a weapon with the sole purpose to harm and to kill. It has no place amongst civilians.
     
  16. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just as legal to own, just as irresponsible to abuse.
     
  17. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Yes. (Oops, I meant JarodRussell's post.)

    And to those who keep making poor analogies about getting rid of all cars, knives, etc. because they kill people: Yes, they do kill people, but they also all have an intended purpose other than killing. Any killing that occurs with them is either misuse or accidental. Guns have only one purpose, killing.
     
  18. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ The sole purpose of a gun is not just to kill people. Farmers use them to kill the predators that attack their livestock. Hunters use them to kill deer in areas that have no natural predators. Ever seen a deer herd starving to death?

    Now, assault weapons have no purpose other than to kill people--and lots of them, quickly. There is no need for any civilian to own one. None.

    And I would like to see stricter regulation of who gets to go hunting in this country. It gets tiresome wearing blaze orange simply to walk from your house to your car during hunting season. There are too many idiots drunk on testosterone out in the woods blasting away at anything that moves.
     
  19. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Are you a farmer or a hunter?
     
  20. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Was. I moved to the city

    Will be again in a few years.

    ETA: And I worked in 3 rural hospitals that saw the yearly carnage of damn fools in the woods shooting each other & themselves.