Marvel Studios may be planning more MCU for the small screen

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Chris3123, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Maybe so, but that just supports my point -- that it's not about how long a franchise has been around, not some inexorable loss of interest that will make it impossible for a franchise to have a successful film in the foreseeable future and require its total abandonment. It's just a lack of freshness that can be compensated for by making one good, solid film that revitalizes the series.
     
  2. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But a reboot would mean yet another retelling of the origin story. No matter how well done, that's old hat now.

    I agree a great AS3 could do the job, but that's what they're apparently backing away from...
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not necessarily. Tim Burton's Batman was a reboot that only told the origin in flashback. Leterrier's The Incredible Hulk was a reboot that dealt with the origin in a quick montage under the opening titles.


    No, that's what the rumor mill is saying because people aren't paying attention to what's actually been reported. All that's been hinted is that Sony is reassessing plans for its spinoffs, and that the third movie has been postponed for a year. Yes, they're evidently reconsidering the specifics of their approach, but that doesn't remotely mean they intend to cancel anything. On the contrary, the delay may mean they want to take more care with the third film and try to make it better.
     
  4. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I certainly hope so - I like Garfield in the part.

    Unlikely as it is, I'd also be very happy with it going back to Marvel.

    Speaking of The Hulk, was the intention that the Ang Lee film 'sort of' happened - i.e. a soft boot, or is it ignored ?
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I read on TV Tropes that the original intention was to leave it ambiguous whether Lee's Hulk had happened in the same continuity, but Edward Norton insisted on altering the details of the Hulk's origin to make it clear they were separate realities. (Which worked out well, because the revised origin was linked to research into the supersoldier formula that created Captain America, so it helped unify the film with the later MCU.)
     
  6. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not just the costume, but that was a big factor. FYI, it wasn't inspired by Todd McFarlane so much as Ultimate Spider-Man which seems to be the main inspiration of the series. I also said there were slight differences to the suit, it's just that they're very similar, I felt like ASM1's suit made much progress in the costume department, save for a few minor details, the suit felt superior, had a more spider-ish feel to it.

    You can always have too much of a good thing. ;) Early on in the film I was glad they included her more and I really liked the character, but she almost felt like the main character. I wouldn't have included her as much near the end of the film as they did, in the comics Spider-Man never got help from his girlfriend in most of the comics, especially in situations like that. While heroic of her, I felt it irresponsible of Peter have not stopped her going enough, in a dangerous situation like that you wouldn't bring the love of your life there. And think about the children watching it, would they rather have the majority of the film with Spidey moping about Gwen or do they want action and him to kick butt more? I think the latter. Yes, story is good, more character driven plots are good, that's where The Avengers went wrong, but this film was too slow going.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I never said the costume was inspired by McFarlane, just that the eyes were similar in size and shape. It was a description, not an explanation. And in fact, it was inspired first and foremost by the original Spider-Man costume design from the 1960s comics, just as the Raimi costume was. They're similar, not because Webb was trying to copy Raimi, but because Raimi and Webb were both homaging Ditko.

    And what's wrong with Gwen feeling like an equally central character? We should be past the era when the leading lady was just a secondary love interest who was shunted aside so as not to distract from the action. The reason Spidey didn't get help from his girlfriend in the '60s and '70s comics was because there was a lot more sexism back then. This is the 2010s -- we shouldn't be bound by those old conventions.

    And who says the children watching the film only want to see Spidey in action? Girls can watch the movie too -- why shouldn't they have the chance to get excited about a protagonist they can identify with? One thing the industry is slow to catch onto is that a huge percentage of comics fans these days are female. They love superheroes and want to enjoy their adventures, but all too often find themselves actively excluded by the industry and the male fan community. And that just hurts the industry by driving away people who want to embrace it and spend money on it. So the industry has really got to stop thinking of female characters as add-ons or distractions. And these movies' superb handling of Gwen is a great step in the right direction.
     
  8. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I agree to keep an open mind and be willing to be persuaded, but I still am sticking to my position that, as of right now, my preference is for Marvel to get it back. The reason is two-fold. One, the news so far has been consistently more concerning than reassuring. The second is I think the Marvel universe as a whole could benefit from the things associated with the Fantastic Four (far more than it benefits from Spider-Man or X-Men rights).
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Maybe, but I still think the best argument in favor of keeping the rights divided among studios is that any one studio can only do so many movies per year. If Marvel had all the rights, we'd get fewer movies, or we'd get more rushed movies.
     
  10. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    It's a tough call. I think the FF would be a great fit in the MCU, but as you say, that might stretch their resources a bit.
     
  11. kitik

    kitik Captain Captain

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    Gwen was the best part of ASM2.

    If Marvel/Disney could make FF movies, we probably wouldn't be getting Guardians Of The Galaxy in a few weeks.

    That's pretty much all the argument you need for splitting up the Marvel films among different studios, isn't it?





    So if they're filming Daredevil already, a lot of episodes should be done and ready to be released by January 1, right?
     
  12. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I don't disagree with that, but that's why I was talking about things like the Kree-Skrull war, which seems currently Balkanized so no studio can do it. I'm not saying the Fantastic Four needs to be added right away, but I think it would make a nice Phase 4 film.
     
  13. Green Lantern

    Green Lantern Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well then, I certainly do wish Mervel could make FF movies! GoG shouldn't really have gotten a movie, no one prior to the movie's announcement outside of the comic circle have ever heard of them, me included. And from what I've seen it look dreadful, looks a cheap rip off from Star Wars but with a talking racoon. Not even Black Panther or Doctor Strange first, they picked GoG for some bizarre reason. I'd be surprised if it does that well.

    Well, I think they should have stuck with ASM1's design, or just changed a few things. I felt that was perfect, was a nice modern take on the suit and looked more "spidery".

    Nothing, but when she takes up too much screen time with too much romance and flirting, that's when something becomes wrong. This is a superhero film, people like action in superhero films. A bit of romance, yes but the majority of the film was about Peter and Gwen messing around with romance. Yes, it is good for female fans to have their role models, but just because they're female doesn't meant their role model of the film should be female, why couldn't they just have Spider-Man himself as the main role model? They should make some more female superhero films instead, but in a Spider-Man film I want to see Spider-Man. I'd say SM1 and ASM1 got the best balance between romance and action, if they stuck to the recipe of ASM1 then this film would have been great. But there was too much romance here.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I will never, for the life of me, understand the attitude that there's something wrong with making a movie about characters nobody has heard of. Nobody had ever heard of Luke Skywalker before 1977. Nobody had ever heard of Ellen Ripley before Alien came out. Nobody had ever heard of Charles Foster Kane before Citizen Kane came out.


    And Star Wars was itself one big pastiche of elements from dozens of earlier movies, books, and serials. It didn't invent the tropes of space opera, not by a very, very long shot.


    To the general public that makes up 90-odd percent of the moviegoing audience, Black Panther and Doctor Strange are every bit as obscure as the Guardians. For that matter, so were Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor before their movies came out. Again, it makes no sense to think that prior familiarity with a concept is necessary for making a worthwhile movie about it.



    "Yes, it is good for male fans to have their role models, but just because they're male doesn't mean their role model of the film should be male, why couldn't they just have Gwen herself as the main role model?"

    The problem is that generations have defaulted to male role models, and that creates a culture of exclusion toward women that is still very, very much a problem in the entertainment industry and elsewhere. And complacent BS like you just spouted is what keeps the imbalance from being corrected. I'm very thankful that the makers of the movie cared enough to move things in the right direction.


    Then you don't understand Spider-Man at all. Peter Parker has always been defined by his relationships, and romance has always been a huge part of his story. What made Marvel Comics so revolutionary in the 1960s was that they weren't merely the one-dimensional action stories that DC and other publishers were doing at the time. Timely/Marvel creators like Lee, Kirby, and Ditko had been specializing for years in doing romance comics, horror comics, mystery comics, and the like, and thus, when the company shifted its focus back to superheroes, the creators brought those same sensibilities into them -- the shocking twists, the monstrous heroes alienated from society, the teen angst and soap opera, the serialized narratives, all of it. Spider-Man comics have always been unapologetically soap-operatic in their preoccupation on Peter Parker's relationship angst and romantic travails. You can't have a Spider-Man story without relationships being at the core of it, because that's who Spidey is -- someone who cares deeply about other people, who defines himself by his relationships with them and his obligations to them. He fights crime because of his guilt at letting Uncle Ben down. He triumphs over the worst obstacles by reminding himself of his obligation to Aunt May or Mary Jane or his other friends. His worst enemies always seem to be people close to Peter Parker or to the people he cares about. It's always personal, and very soapy.
     
  15. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, as I said in the ASM2 thread, theorizing that Orci's departure to direct Trek might mean that Sony is getting ready to give up Spider-Man is wishful thinking, nothing more.

    ASM2 was made in under two years - a hurry by most movie standards, and even more so when you have to prep action sequences, effects and such a year or more in advance. Add in the confusion and constant rethinking of an expanded Spidey universe and it's not at all hard to see where the overstuffed messiness came from; Orci and Kurtzman were probably hired for their speed as much as for any particular creative vision.

    Assuming the next movie comes out in '17, a more relaxed schedule should allow for more time to craft a really solid script. If ASM2 was the SM3 of the Webb series, maybe ASM3 can be its SM2. :p
     
  16. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  17. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Haven't seen True Blood, but I can't complain with that choice.
     
  18. Technobuilder

    Technobuilder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Deborah Ann Woll in the MCU, heck yeah. I'm suddenly hoping Netflix takes these Street-Level shows to a slightly edgier place than the tamer major films & Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
     
  19. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ASM2 has only made $705 million! Everybody panic.
     
  20. Emh

    Emh The Doctor Premium Member

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    I've been hoping this since the announcement of Netflix's involvement. If House of Cards and Orange is the New Black are any indication, we might very well get the kind of edge a show about Daredevil would require.