Malcolm Reed and his love-life *** minor spoiler ***

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Echtzeit, Jun 7, 2014.

  1. hbquikcomjamesl

    hbquikcomjamesl Captain Captain

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    Lt. Sean Hawk, from Star Trek: First Contact, although his sexual orientation was not established canonically, was later established as being gay in several novels.

    And if I remember right, doesn't Trip have at least one gay relative?
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    His brother Bert, yes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
  3. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    Who has a husband and adopted son.
     
  4. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bert ??!!

    People are still called Bert in the 22nd century?

    Oy.

    .
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    What's wrong with that?
     
  6. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It conjures images of cloth caps and whippets, smoking a pipe on the way home from t'mine, thinking about feeding t'pigeons. It just doesn't seem very... Star Trekky. More Coronation Street-y.

    .
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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  8. hbquikcomjamesl

    hbquikcomjamesl Captain Captain

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    Hmm. As one who grew up on Bobbsey Twins novels (and has at least one version of every single title), the first Bert who comes to my mind would be Bert Bobbsey.

    (Speaking of which, is anybody else here aware that it was Edward Stratemeyer who, for all intents and purposes, invented "book packaging," and it was with the Bobbsey Twins, years before the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew, that he first developed the concept? Or that while the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew that got most of the attention, the Bobbsey Twins was, when the series was canceled in 1979, the longest-running of all the Stratemeyer children's novel series?)

    But back to the topic, I do remember Trip's brother having a husband and an adopted child. Was there any canonical mention of Bert? Or is he strictly a creature of the novels?
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it would have added an interesting quality to his character although I don't think it would have been desirable to make a big deal of it. In fact, Mayweather probably needed more depth. They should have made him gay instead.
     
  10. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I don't remember any mention of Tripp's brother in the tv series.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Trip canonically has a brother, but the brother's name and family situation are inventions of the novels.
     
  12. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Famous Vulcan philosopher, T'Pigeon. One could scatter philosophical breadcrumbs before her and she would peck away at them logically to her heart's content. Her seminal contributions to the debate on Vulcan urban aesthetics inform the appearance of the city of Gol to this day, particularly the statues.
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Laying an egg...it is a difficult concept. It is not logical.
     
  14. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I never got the impression from Reed, as presented on Enterprise, that he was gay, nor do I think it was ever intended by the writers to make him gay. Anyone who thinks this, in my opinion, is reading into something a little too much, or simply wants the character to be gay for whatever reason, and are seeing what they want to see.

    That said, I think it could have been an interesting plot twist, to reveal Reed was gay. Reed stating he had girlfriends in the past doesn't necessarily contradict that, either, as it could be explained as something he tried, and maybe didn't like it and took a while to realize it.

    The only thing I think might be seen as a potential negative is that Reed was always portrayed as kind of uptight and seemed to have such an exaggerated sense of self-reproach and inadequacy. That could be misconstrued as he is ashamed to be gay, as well as something he feels he should hide from his crew mates.

    I mean I know Enterprise is 100 years before TOS, but even then, that is an age where humanity is and should be progressive and enlightened enough to not care if Reed is gay or not, and the way Reed was written, I get the impression his character would be obsessed with keeping his homosexuality a secret and be afraid of revealing it to anyone. And to me Reed being overly concerned and constantly worrying what his crew members think of him being gay in the 22nd century is sort of out of character for that era, and makes Reed look basically like he is neurotic, and not well adjusted. Just not a good example of a gay character...one who is self doubting and feels guilty for being gay, in a society that should be enlightened enough by the 22nd century to not care he is gay.

    Now, if there were to be an LGBT character in Star Trek, if they are gay or lesbian, it should be portrayed like its no big deal, and no one on Earth or in Starfleet thinks its a big deal. That precedent was sort of set by Dax already. Maybe a gay or lesbian first officer or something like that.

    Another idea I think may be interesting is what if there were a transsexual Vulcan? Now, unlike Earth or Starfleet in 22, 23, or the 24th centuries, where LGBT shouldn't be a big deal, I can see Vulcans, who are uber conservative and uber repressed, maybe having an issue with a transsexual Vulcan. Not unlike the shame T'pol had to face for being with a telepathic Vulcan, maybe Vulcan society struggles with the "logic" of a Vulcan who changes his or her gender, and lives as the opposite gender of their birth. I think that would be an interesting story line.
     
  15. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    ^^^^ We've had a gay Vulcan in New Frontier, so in TrekLit-canon, they excist. I suppose it makes the concept of a transsexual/transgender Vulcan possible.
     
  16. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, there's a gay Vulcan and a non-heteronormative Vulcan in New Frontier - Selar has a relationship with the hermaphrodite Burgoyne. We don't really have a label for that, that I know of, so I don't know if I'd say she was bisexual, but maybe she was anyways.
    Vanguard also had a lesbian Vulcan.
    If transgenderism is an acknowledged medical condition, then I'd think that it would be logical for the trans Vulcan to live as their innate gender. For all we know, it's commonplace for trans Vulcans to be born and transition early in life, and that's the Federation norm, so no one thinks anything of it.
     
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    It definitely wasn't intended by the writers, but someone on the writing staff was certainly aware of the growing belief in fandom that Reed was gay, since we did get that fake out "were you attracted to him?" in TATV.

    Besides, the stuff between Reed and Major Hayes had way too much homoerotic subtext to it to ignore.
     
  18. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I read an interview when ENT first came on where TPTB were asked if one of the characters were gay, and they said maybe, they hadn't decided. I was appalled that they didn't know their characters that well at that point, but who else could they have been considering at that point? I think everyone else was established as hetero pretty quickly. I've heard references strongly suggesting that Malcolm being gay was considered.
     
  19. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    And to me, that's why there was never a big focus on people being gay in TrekLit, and why it was always an issue to make it believable in TrekTV.

    If it's supposed to be a non-issue, how do you make it an issue in Star Trek without it becoming weird or pushy? They have tried, with various results in fandom.

    For me, having a gay character on a Trek tvshow, would simply have a male saying something about an ex-boyfriend who couldn't deal with the risk of having a loved one in the service, and that's why he's single at the moment, and move on. No huge spotlights and drumroles. It's just there, because honestly, in the 24th century, it shouldn't matter anymore.

    If writers are going to make a HUGE deal of it, it will feel forced.
     
  20. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I definitely wouldn't want a character being gay to be a big deal, any more than race was in TOS. That wouldn't be true to the spirit of Trek. No one, at least no humans, would or should be coming out on Star Trek. LGBT should be accepted so that it's unnecessary.
    But you can and should still have actual gay characters, you just treat them the same as anyone else. There are plenty of characters on Trek who were clearly straight even if they weren't shown in a relationship, it's not that difficult to do. Their partner or ex partner is referenced, or an attraction or interest in someone is exhibited - these things are done with straight characters so casually and so often no one thinks anything of them.
    This makes me think of how surprising it was in the movie Showgirls, where gay couples were mixed into a party scene, just extras. That's something you almost never see.