Lucy Liu cast as Watson in CBS' Sherlock Holmes show

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Dream, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's exactly the feel I have of Elementary -- it's House with murders. Yes, I realize that House was Sherlock Holmes with medicine, but House feels more like the template for this show than the Canon. Lucy Liu's Watson seems more like a blend of Wilson and Cuddy than a derivation of the original Watson, while Miller's Holmes reminds me of House in his playful, manic moods.
     
  2. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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  3. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Sort of my feeling, especially in how Holmes dresses, some sort of T-Shirt (usually a rock band one for house) with a partly buttoned shirt over it and then a suit-jacket over the whole thing. All wrinkled, and then stubble.

    The Holmes of the books was very neat and clean, said to have a "cat-like obsession with his appearance" by Watson. The Holmes in "Sherlock" doesn't fit this and much more closely matches House's take on his appearance.

    Yes, House was inspired by Sherlock Holmes in numerous ways (over the course of the series, though, his team more took over the "Watson" role, while Wilson just remained House's closest (only) friend. Wilson rarely played in part in House's "investigations.") But House's appearance strikes me as an entirely unique character trait rather than trying to emulate Holmes. Even the RDJ "Holmes" movies somewhat borrow from the "House" model with their take on Holmes being a bit scruffier and less concerned about appearance.

    But CBS' Holmes and just overall mannerism strikes me as more "House-like" than Sherlock Holmes like.
     
  4. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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  6. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thought last week's episode was pretty good, with the twist regarding the identity of the birthday balloon killer (even if it did seem far-fetcheded as hell).

    And it's cool seeing a bit more spunk and attitude coming from Lucy's character.

    But Miller's Sherlock still seems way too derivative to me. This is supposed to be the one and only Sherlock Holmes, but the deductions he makes never feel all that brilliant or original-- and don't seem like anything you wouldn't see on any OTHER detective show on TV.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Despite Holmes's reputation, the appeal of the original stories was never really about cunning mysteries and brilliant deductions, but more about the characters of Holmes and Watson and the colorful adventures they got into. In that respect, I think the show is doing rather well.

    And let's face it, the reason this seems so much like all those other detective shows is because all those other detective shows are following the lead of Sherlock Holmes. It doesn't really follow to expect the seminal, defining work of the mystery genre to be radically different from the rest of the genre that grew out of it. Works that inspire whole genres often seem derivative to those looking back on them generations later.
     
  8. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^True, but even so, I'd say the BBC Sherlock manages to stand out from the pack and seem pretty distinctive. So it's obviously doable.

    I realize the Elementary writers have many more episodes to put out, so the mysteries aren't going to be as original or unique. But I at least think Sherlock himself could stand out a bit more than he does on this show.
     
  9. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. To me, one of the many strengths of Doyle's canon is how many cases don't revolve around plain ol' murder; robbery, blackmail, international intrigue and con jobs are just as likely to be brought to 221B. Also, sometimes Holmes and Watson side with the criminal, and on occasion there's no criminal, or even crime, at all.

    A glance at the current episode list, however, suggests yet another "all homicide, all the time" series, much like the similarly Holmes-inspired L&O: CI.

    I get that it's tough to do a forty-minute teleplay without murders, but my sympathies are not excited by that fact. A ceaseless run of murder cases is, to me, perhaps the worst perversion of the duo's legacy, far more than bringing things to the present, or making Watson a woman.
     
  10. SAndrews10

    SAndrews10 Captain Captain

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    Much like Wo-Fat on the H50, I'm just waiting for Moriarty to appear and be the recurring villian of the series.
     
  11. Icemizer

    Icemizer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^Yup. Perhaps even the real reason Holmes had to leave England.
     
  12. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Even worse is the ridiculous number of serial killers that'll be involved. It's become such a hoary cliche in procedurals by now, and the main reason I gave up on watching them.
     
  13. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If you don't like hoary old cliches, why are you watching CBS?

    This show is exactly what the CBS audience wants, which is why it's one of the most successful new shows this season. Expecting anything but a CBS show from CBS is delusional.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But not because of its cases, which are modern remixes of the Doyle stories. It's more to do with the distinctive stylistic elements that Steven Moffat brings to it.


    Whereas I think I may prefer Elementary's version to Sherlock's. The latter is too exaggerated, like just about everything Moffat does, and the so-called "sociopath" angle is played up too much. I also got quite tired of what a jerk Dr. House was all the time. If this version of Holmes is a little more amiable, I'm entirely okay with that.


    Well, we did have a kidnapping case last week, though the kidnapper had murdered his earlier victims.


    I don't agree with either of those being a "perversion." Fiction is a creative exercise to begin with, so applying further creativity, finding new angles and approaches to a concept, is merely a continuation of the same spirit, not a corruption of it.
     
  15. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Lol, good point. Although I do think Person of Interest manages to feel a bit more unique than the usual CBS procedural.
     
  16. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know what Rob Doherty and his team have in mind, but I can see some in-character reasons for why Holmes would focus on working with the police on murder investigations for the time being. He's in a new city, he just got out of rehab, he's trying to find his feet. Hanging out a shingle as a consulting detective and waiting for people to bring cases to him isn't going to help his ennui. (If you remember in the Canon, when business was light like that, Holmes turned to the cocaine.) Focusing on murder can keep him focused.

    I would like to see Holmes do some private consultations that have absolutely nothing to do with the police. If that happens, though, I wouldn't expect it for a while down the line.
     
  17. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In this version, Holmes is an out of towner with no reputation. At this point, any other cases, murder or no, must come via some character's personal life.

    The nearly exclusive fixation on murder has been a weakness of all mystery fiction other than the caper/heist story for decades. Criticizing Elementary alone for this while giving a free ride to every other cop and detective show is quite strange. Nor is it any more a hoary cliche than a male Watson. It is just something that was regarded as essential but turns out not to be after all.

    CBS aimed that hoary cliche Joan Watson straight at the enervated faculties of the vile old folks, dontcha know?:lol:
     
  18. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It certainly would be. Please let us know if/when someone does that, so we can point and laugh at 'em together.
     
  19. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I'm really enjoying this show more than I thought I would. Like I've said above the take on Holmes seems more "House" to me, but that's fine because I liked House so I'm digging this as well. (Though I'd argue this guy isn't nearly as charismatic as Laurie was.) I'm growing on Liu as Watson but it just doesn't "feel right." I get that they probably felt they needed a regular female character but I think it could've been done a bit differently than going the "Monk" route with our quirky detective having a doctor follow him around all of the time.
     
  20. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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