Lt. Kim

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by davidant32, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure it's almost 30, but only Garret knows for sure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  2. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    I'm going to blame Janeway for the Harry situation. I'm also going to go with Guy here and go with the premise that Harry is the senior Operations officer on Voyager and a senior staff department head. What I don't understand is why that all of a sudden became an entry level position. A guy comes from the academy green as grass and is placed as the senior officer in his field. Just who the hell is he supposed to go to when he has a question? I'm not 100% sure what Star Trek defines Operations as. In TNG, Data almost seemed liked the senior science officer. (basically did Spockish type work) That is pretty much how Harry operated until Seven showed up. Seems like more than just distributing assets and acting as a quartermaster. The dude should have been a full LT by the time they hit Earth. Full Stop.
     
  3. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Folks here view Harry for all 7 seasons as a do nothing character, yet think he deserves a promotion. I don't get it, isn't that a contradiction?
     
  4. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Why not? All you have to do in the military the first couple of years is not get a DUI in your first 18 months and you are good to go. He was a frikkin Ensign. Nobody is petitioning him for a Captaincy. Is J.G. all that much to ask? Jesus, Reg made full Commander for Christ sake.
     
  5. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Barclay is a way better Engineer than Harry.
    Within the first month, Harry plotted to steal alien technology after he was told not to. Within in the next few months he openly defied Tuvok, a commanding officer. Harry wasn't discipline enough for a promotion. Look at how Harry acted with Tom? Harry was a follower, not a leader. Lt requires you know how to think for yourself and respect the chain of command, even if you don't like the orders.
     
  6. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    We could make a laundry list of things every major character in the history of Star Trek did that could technically bar them from promotion. Kim knew his job and served well enough to get an extra pip. Through all of the things you mentioned he still kept his job. Why? Because he was woefully inept? I don't think so. Because they needed him? Most likely. My life experience tells me that your last sentence isn't all that true.
     
  7. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Its Star Trek, none of it is true.
    I disagree, leaving the hologram in charge over Harry tells me they didn't find Harry capable enough yet for promotion.
     
  8. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    ah, the classic "it's just a T.V. show" exit.

    What does being left in command of a starship have to do with being promoted within your field?
     
  9. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've already gone over it.
    Sorry you have issue with me finding Trek just a TV show.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Technical proficiency doesn't = Rank.

    Actually the more rank you have the less labour (Engineering in this case)you have to do.

    Rank is about human resources management.

    Oh, here's a thought about the size of Operations, maybe it is just one guy?

    He's the department head, and his entire department is just him.

    (Getting Chakotay was a two week mission. It's conceivable that all missions for Intrepid Class vessels will be 2 weekish missions, and inbetween those missions they're just parked at Starbases, where they don't need any crew at all.)

    Half of what Operations is, is asking all the other departments if they have their shit together, is anything broken, or can you do something for the bridge/captain please? That's why he has the damage reports, the Operations Officer is monitoring everyone else. All the above legwork/elbow grease is, is the readouts vs. a couple do-it buttons on his LCARS. Remember the Doctor in Message in a Bottle when...

    Kim's job is reading a teleprompter.
     
  11. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree with Seven being a surrogate daughter for Janeway, as was Kes.
    I can see how Kim filled that same role, as a son, but I don't feel the bond was as strong with her girls. Harry had a family of his own, even if they were far away, he was just there until he got home. Seven and Kes weren't ever going to be reunited with their families, so Voyager was the only home they had.
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I agree.
    That and Seven needed more attention cause she had special needs. She didn't have the proper social skills Kes & Harry already had.
     
  13. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh yes. Seven was definitely the one who needed Janeway the most, at least for their first few years together.
     
  14. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Might have been interesting if they had done a story where one of the lower deck officers-- Joe Carey for example, had the writers realized he was still alive-- started bucking for Harry's job, and proved better at it in a crisis of the week situation. Closed door meetings with Janeway and Chakotay on whether to make Carey the Ops Officer, Tuvok perhaps as Kim's defender, and Harry and Garrett get something to do other than opening hailing frequencies.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    When I'm less tired I will covert you all to J/7.. as the fandom says, my mother ever looked at me like Janeway looks at 7 :lol:
     
  16. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not a bad idea but I see Janeway & Tuvok teaming up against Harry, while Chakotay defended him instead.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You do remember that Carey worked under Picard on the Enterprise?

    (Josh played unnamed lieutenant in TNG Justice)

    He's fine with the idle of his career path.
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Carey was just a hypothetical example, just to keep it from being someone we'd never seen before gunning for Kim's job.

    And yeah, exodus, you're probably right. Chakotay would fight for Kim. Tuvok would be the one saying the other guy was the logical choice.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In one of my silly stories, I'm about to stick Janeway in the same room with a Henry Starling and Richard Nixon.

    I'm not sure how the next 18 minutes are going to go.
     
  20. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I like Tuvok but Vulcans can be dicks like that.