Discussion in 'Lost' started by Agent Richard07, May 13, 2009.
Gasp! So that S1
You know I was thinking about the writing on this show, and the characters, and I'm thinking I'd hate to be an actor portraying one of these characters. Look at what they do to them. Pretty much everybody hates Kate. Jack is well, a jackass. Sawyer, although redemed now, was pretty much the epitome of an asshole through the first couple of seasons. (And I'm believer in a "leopard can't change his spots so his character transformation has been unbelievable to me).
And then you have poor John Locke. Pretty much a pathetic loser all his life. Followed up by some serious errors in judgement on the island (blowing up the sub, the communications station, etc). And then he gets killed by that manipulitive weasel Ben. But then we get to seem him ressurected and become uberLocke, the all-seeing, all-knowing, kicking Ben's ass Locke. EXCEPT . . . it's not really Locke, it's "Not-Locke."
If there was a middle finger smiley I think I'd insert one for the writers/producers here.
Gasp! So that S1 dream about Locke with the white eye and the black eye... could that have been foreshadowing for Locke being an agent of Jacob but then dying and his "body" being used by Esau??? Or is it just coincidence?
I'm not sure I explained my argument clearly. i understand that you're talking about changing the timeline. But that would mean that there's an "original timeline" in which the Losties never went back to the 1970s and an "altered timeline" in which they did. But if that's the case, then the version of 2007 that we've been watching all season long is the "altered timeline", not the original one. We know this because there's a picture of the Losties from the Dharma era, and because Richard says he remembers them and "watched them die".
So nothing they did back in the 1970s prevented, say, Jacob from being killed. Because their actions are already part of the timeline that we've been watching all season, and Jacob was in fact killed.
The island moves.
When it was destroyed it got left behind.
Jacob is a name from the Bible.
Didn't he have a brother who was denied favoritisim and desired to kill him?
Isn't Ben the name of one of the many children Jacob had?
Jack's last name is "Shepard".
Who many cast members are left?
Are there 12?
Additionally, it has been theorized for a long time now that's how the Black Rock managed to show up so far onto the Island.
Yes and yes. Esau was the name of his brother and Benjamin was one of two children Jacob had with Rachel (who was intially barren...sound familiar?) along with Joseph.
Additionally, Isaac was Jacob and Esau's father and we've met an Isaac on the show (the Australian healer, played by Wayne Pygram, that Bernard took Rose to).
Jack, Kate, Sayid (no way he's dead), Hurley, James, John, Jin, Sun, Ben, Desmond (unless he gets demoted next season), and Miles. 11 at the moment but others might be promoted (Illana, Jacob) or introduced. Plus I'm not willing to count Juliet out just yet...
Esau was older but Jacob was chosen, so Esau was made to serve his brother, right?
Esau became a hunter, while Jacob was a humble man and a dweller in tents.(much like the Others live)
Also, if we remember, Faux-Locke (aka Esau) first appeared to Richard and the Others after having hunted a boar.
It's a small thing, to be certain, but one that ties directly into the inherent nature of Esau.
Not so small if it give us a clue.
However, I feel like Deanna Troi in Star Trek: Nemesis.
I'm reposting a comment Gertch made a month ago in the "Dead is Dead" discussion thread... I'm sure it'll be of interest.
Easy, easy excellent.
Once I got over the weirdness of Rita's horrible ex as Jacob, I really started to love the flashbacks with him, and the way the whole tapestry of the story - all the way back to the pilot episode and Jack's "five seconds" story to Kate - is being woven together, just like Jacob's tapestry itself.
The confusion among the Losties about what to do about their situation is believable, because they really have no way of knowing what to do. It all depends on "how reality works," and the universe isn't telling. So they fall back on the things their personalities impel them to do - Jack is still maniacally trying to fix everything. Sawyer has gotten over his rage and just wants to find a safe haven. Juliet is neurotic about losing Sawyer and Kate is just plain neurotic.
The big ole fist fight between Jack and Sawyer was a long time coming and thank goodness they "got it out of their system" at long last. Jack's comment to Sawyer, "see you in Los Angeles," was chilling - he's going to destroy a chunk of all their lives - even if it had been a tough chunk of life, it's still life. Is it right to turn your back on your own life like that, or to embrace it, regardless of how good or bad it is? Is Jack really correct in his eternal desire to fix everything all the time, on the probably deluded assumption that life needs to be made "all right"? Even if the Losties spend half their time arguing with and trying to kill each other, does that make their relationships worthless?
Some great classic lines, too. Miles: "I'm glad you all thought this through." Sawyer: "This doesn't look like LAX."
The reveal that Locke is still dead really took me by surprise. The other big surprise - despite reading flat-out spoilers to the contrary - is that Juliet didn't actually die. If she died, so did the other folks at the Swan Station, and somehow I doubt that could be the case. Unless this show is about to get really weird.
Bernard and Rose telling the Losties to just frakkin' chill already was classic. That felt like the last time we'll see them, and it's probable that they are therefore Adam and Eve. But who gets Vincent? I guess he stays with Bernard and Rose?
That's gotta be the best cliffhanger of all time. I don't think I've ever seen one where literally anything can happen now. Will they wake up with dinosaurs, on an alien world, in a holosuite that's just been turned off, in a lunatic asylum, in a pharoah's tomb in ancient Egypt, in purgatory or on Flight 815 headed into that damn trench? Wait until 2010!!!!!!! to find out. (Nice of them to remind us of that, too. Bastards. )
^I think that the reason some people believe that Juliet is more likely to be dead than the others is because she has such serious injuries from her fall. If, for instance, they were all transported back to the present on the island (timeline did not change), then Juliet would still have her really serious injuries and die almost immediately. Of course if they changed the timeline then who knows what will happen.
So THAT'S where I've seen him before!
And as for the finale - all I can say is that it was fecking amazing. Great stuff.
I find it intriguing that Jacob basically manipulated Ben into killing him once the players were inside The Big Foot Of Mystery. He could have tried to run...could have tried to talk his way out of it...but no. He stepped up, insulted Ben and did nothing to stop the attack that was obviously coming...
What's he up to, eh?
I thought that changing the timeline means that any injuries that people have now will go poof as they are returned to their original state, on Flight 815 or wherever they might be. (Their memories will be gone as well.)
The real reason why Juliet might die is if Elizabeth Mitchell's new show V is picked up (cmon ABC!!!) Juliet is great but I'd rather see the actress in a new show that could last beyond next season, and overall the cast is great and it sounds promising.
And Esau was one of Al Swearengen's minions on Deadwood. Wotta pair!
That's why I said that if they DO change the timeline who knows what will happen, but if they don't, and are just transported back to 2007 with no timeline changes, then Juliet's a goner.
Nobody else on the Island has survived a fatal injury.
Boone, Shannon, Libby, Eko, Nikki, Paulo, Arst, Anna Lucia.....
Even members of the Others haven't cheated death.
If the Island doesn't want you to die, no fatal injury can happen.
Remember Micheal when he tried to kill himself?
I just thought of another reason Juliet will die. Let's say that the bomb just teleports them all back to 2007. Juliet will be teleported into solid ground and be instantly killed. While there is an open crater where the Swan used to be, I don't think it was nearly deep enough to go all the way down to the bottom of that deep shaft she fell into. ... I didn't know about Elizabeth Mitchell being in "V". I guess that's why they're potentially writing her out?
Dead is dead, as we have so very clearly seen with Locke/Not-Locke. Juliet is dead.
I think Sayid will die too. You don't just shoot a kid. The island pay back is a bitch!
I also wouldn't count her as gone for good.
Ghost do roam this Island.
Separate names with a comma.