Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Discussion in 'Lost' started by Agent Richard07, May 13, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    79.6%
  2. Above Average

    14.6%
  3. Average

    2.9%
  4. Below Average

    1.9%
  5. Poor

    1.0%
  1. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    I slept on it and decided to vote "above average". I couldn't give it an excellent. It was quite an edge-of-your-seat ride, but there was too much tease and build-up, and not enough in the way of solid answers or things coming together.
     
  2. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oooh, thanks for the translation.:techman:
     
  3. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    In retrospect, this makes me wonder if Christian isn't with Jacob but with the Adversary. When Ilana gets to Jacob's Cabin she freaks out because the circle of ash was broken and "someone else has been using it". I gotta go back to re-examine everything "Christian" has ever done and said now! It makes sense to associate Cerebus with the Adversary; Cerebus is a security system to keeps outsiders away from the Temple. The Adversary was upset with Jacob for bring the Black Rock to the Island (and by extension any other people as well). So the Adversary wants the Island to be left alone while Jacob wants to bring people here with his lists and his weaving threads through history. It sounds like their rivalry is over whether human nature is redemptive or inherently evil. Not to mention the fact that Cerebus told Ben to do whatever Locke/Adversary told him to do!
     
  4. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure which I like better, but I rank this cliffhanger right up there with "The Best of Both Worlds," and "The Incident" is now my favorite episode of Lost.
     
  5. Every scene with the Smoke monster is now worth a second look. Maybe "Esau" (or Anti-Jacob, whatever we're calling him) is scanning them to see if he can use them as part of his 'loophole' plan (which I assume means manipulating someone else into killing Jacob, ie Ben in this case).

    And once he realizes he can't use them... ffttt, you're dead.
     
  6. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's almost certainly the case. We'll see what happens, but for now I like that theory.
     
  7. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ooh, interesting.

    Matthew Fox was on Jimmy Kimmel last night and he claims to know what the shows ending is.
     
  8. WE've all generally come to the conclusion that "Esau" has been engineering these events to kill Jacob... but what about Jacob and the "70s folks"?

    The whole time travel thing could be Jacob's counter-move to Esau's plan? He knew "Esau" had put his plan into motion so he went around and 'touched' Jack/Sawyer/Kate/Hurley/etc... Maybe that 'touch' is why THEY got selectively flashed back in time, both when Ben turned the wheel and from the Ajira flight. Like a "marker" that says, hey, everybody who has this mark on them, gets thrown back in time when things flash.

    When he tells Esau "they're coming" before he dies... he's of course talking about all the people from the 70s, who have succeeded in changing history? 70s are Jacob's failsafe.
     
  9. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Yeah, I'm pretty sure they've said before that Matthew Fox knows (although I think he is the only one to know).
     
  10. Obiwanshinobi

    Obiwanshinobi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    that and why it took such a liking to Locke, it scanned him, saw that Jacob had revived him after the fall, now i wonder how Claire factors into everything, or even the whole Shepard bloodline for that matter. I really hope its not as plain and simple of Esau just taking their forms to further manipulate. If it is, then anybody who watched the last season of Buffy, this is very much like The First Evil.

    ^i have to go back and rewatch again, but did he not touch Sun too when he was at Jin and Sun's wedding? Why didn't she go back in time?
     
  11. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    Doesn't work, because the version of 2007 we see on the show already includes the actions of the 815ers back in 1977. We know that because we see a picture of them from the Dharma era, and we see Richard say "I remember meeting them, and I watched them die". That proves that their actions back in 1977 are already part of the timeline.

    Christian is dead. The fact that we now know that Locke never really came back to life suggests that Christian never really came back to life either. He was probably Jacob's rival all along. That's why Ilana says that the cabin had been used by someone else. It was used by Jacob's rival posing as Christian.
     
  12. Mallet

    Mallet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe smokey and the "ghosts" are different entities? Or there might be more then one type of "ghost".

    Jacob made it pretty obvious that he thought the ghosts Hurley sees are good (or a "blessing"), so I don't think they could be being created by Smokey if Smokey is Jacob's adversary. On the other hand, "alternate" Locke (as a "Ghost") was clearly against Jacob. So we have two different types of "ghosts" good ones and bad ones. And what they tell people to do is based on which side they are on.

    Now, what about Christian? Good or Bad? Well, if he is bad, then maybe the original plan was to try and convince Jack to kill Jacob, but when that didn't happen he switched to trying to use Locke to get it done?

    I also wonder if Locke's father was ever really there, or maybe "he" was just a ghost as well? Another way to manipulate Locke in to taking over the Others?
     
  13. Mallet

    Mallet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So if Jacob and his enemy are actually God and Satan fighting it out, both of them could be recruiting the dead for their own ends. Jacob brings back the spirits of the "good" dead (Charlie, Libby,etc...) The bad guy, brings back the spirits of those who went to hell (Christian, and ??) and uses Smokey to kill off people he wants gone.
     
  14. Have the writers done any interviews yet since last night shedding more light on stuff?
     
  15. Roshi

    Roshi Admiral Admiral

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    WTF-est episode ever! Excellent! So many things happened, so many deaths! :eeks:
    Yay! Radzinsky's gonna spend the rest of his life pushing the button for his stupidity!
     
  16. Vic Sixx

    Vic Sixx Commodore Commodore

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    With Juliet, Sayid, Locke, near death, The only one I presume to be really dead is Juliet. And I'm beginning to wonder if Richard serves Jacob's enemy and not Jacob and was just playing along with fake Locke.

    Why did fake Locke try to hard to take Sun with them on the trip? As a back up in case Ben refused to kill Jacob?

    Remember the beginning, as Jacob and evil dude are watching the pirate ship approach? I'm wondering if we're gonna be more of that or was that it.

    And I didn't picture Jacob as that guy, I thought he'd be an older looking dude, and wondering if the voices Locke was hearing were coming from evil dude and not Jacob.

    I thought the women Juliet and Kate were portrayed as too wishy washy and weak having their emotions so heavily influence their beliefs so easily.
     
  17. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope. And we won't hear anything out of them until Comicon. That's their M.O.
     
  18. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    I found this interesting:

    Season 4 cliffhanger: Locke is dead.

    Season 5 cliffhanger: No, we're serious. Locke is dead.
     
  19. Obiwanshinobi

    Obiwanshinobi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The trip back to the island? Because it was Ben that convinced her to go. Any other trip, I'm sure it didn't take that much convincing for Faux-Locke to get Sun to come along. She seems pretty content on reuniting with Jin. And besides I think it was always the plan for Ben to kill Jacob. He was a former Leader, Locke being dead and that he's taken his form.
     
  20. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    If we assume that "Christian" is Cerebus and they serve or are Esau, then that means it was ESAU who had them move the Island. It was Christian who told Locke to move it. Ilana said "someone else" has been using the cabin and not Jacob like she expected. This indicates that Cerebus/Esau/Christian have been masquerading in Jacob's name to manipulate the humans into the loophole assassination. This would mean that the Oceanic Six time travelers are not Jacob's ace in the hole, unless Jacob was aware of Esau's plan all along and subverted the pawns to his own means. My initial theory on "they're coming" was that Ilana's group are the same race as Jacob and Esau but not with their god-like powers. Ilana and Jacob seemed to know each other. My theory was that the ancient god-like race selects two of their number to have the power to protect the Island from the outside world, and that Esau's plans have opened up the Island to them coming in and trying to take the guardian power from them.