Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Discussion in 'Lost' started by Agent Richard07, May 13, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    79.6%
  2. Above Average

    14.6%
  3. Average

    2.9%
  4. Below Average

    1.9%
  5. Poor

    1.0%
  1. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    So wait.....still trying to absorb everything......

    1) If Locke never really came back to life, then that means that Christian presumably never came back to life either. "Christian" was presumably either Jacob or Jacob's rival all along. Probably Jacob's rival.

    Ilana says that Jacob's cabin has been "used by someone else". That was probably Jacob's rival taking the form of Christian, who used it when he talked to Locke last season. Jacob's rival (as Christian) tells Locke to move the Island. Jacob's rival (as Locke) tells Richard to mend Locke's leg, give him the compass, and tell him that he has to leave the Island and die. Jacob's rival (as Christian) helps Locke when he's down by the donkey wheel, encouraging him to turn it so that he can leave the Island and (eventually) die.

    2) Richard had said of the 815ers trapped in 1977 "I watched them die". This presumably means that they were presumed killed in the Incident. He thought they died in the Incident, but, in all likelihood, they just ended up flashing back to 2007 or something, as I don't think they'd kill off half the cast. The fact that Richard remembers them on the Island and remembers them "dying" (as well as the fact that there's a picture of them) proves that Juliet setting off the bomb doesn't reset the timeline or anything. The Island that we see in 2007 has to have, as part of its past, the actions of the 815ers in 1977.

    3) Jacob and his rival can't kill each other directly, because there are rules or something. Ben and Widmore also can't kill each other, as described in their confrontation last season.
     
  2. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    Wait....thought about it even more.....

    Locke was never meant to be the leader. The whole thing was manufactured by Jacob's rival. Jacob's rival (disguised as Locke) has Richard give Locke the compass. Locke goes back in time to 1954, hands the compass to 1954-Richard, and also mentions to Richard that he knows Jacob. This makes Richard think that Locke is special and that Locke is supposed to eventually become the leader. But he's not. That's why Locke fails the tests. He's not really supposed to become the leader. It was all a setup by Jacob's rival.
     
  3. I was just thinking about that myself. The whole "Locke is a special leader" thing was engineered by the Rival, to somehow exploit the loophole and come in another body and kill jacob.
     
  4. Jaron

    Jaron Captain Captain

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    I wouldn't entirely rule out Locke being special just yet. In The Cost of Living, Locke described the monster as being a beautiful bright light. At the time it seemed like he just saw the monster differently than everyone else, but knowing what we know now, I'm guessing what he really saw was Jacob. What that means is unclear. It could be that Jacob chose him for something and the Rival managed to subvert his role in things, or it could just be a random encounter.
     
  5. gh4chiefs

    gh4chiefs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's that and the "I'm sorry you had to go through this" comment by Jacob to Locke after he fell out of the window. That seems to imply something else might be in store for the real Locke, but again with this show, who knows?
     
  6. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Above average. That's usually a good rating, especially when Lost has been achieving that week in, week out more consistently than any other show I've personally seen. However, in the finale, where you expecting something more epic, it's almost a bit dissappointing.

    What was missing? For 2 hours of screen time, there just didn't seem to be enough plot. There was a ton of walking around, which was really just a stall tactic. You still had good stuff mixed in, but things were drawn out a little too much. Also, the bomb going off at the end was supposed to be a big dramatic thing but it's not. It was pretty expected. We all know that all of those regulars aren't going to be killed off, the only question is what happens. So, to leave it that way is unsatisfying.

    What they should've done is ended it on a WTF, twist type of consequence of the bomb going off. We get a glimpse of how things are going to be next season. But, just a small glimpse that won't make full sense until next year. That would give us something to chew on. As it is, we don't know what happens but we do know that they all won't die.

    Despite these problems, there was a lot of good stuff. It was a typical quality episode produced by the Lost team. I've been astounded by their ability to consistently crank out superb episodes. This one just didn't quite reach the Excellent category, which I rarely give anyway.

    Predictions for next year. Yeah, as I said, they don't all die. I think they are successful in changing time. But, not in the way they expect. There is clearly another manipulator here that they've already set up, Jacob. He's visited all of the Losties, many before they knew of the island. He clearly knows the future and I believe is in manipulating events, weaving the fabric of time so to speak. He knows of the other guys plans (we don't have a name yet right?) and is working on a counter plan. So, he's cooking up something to prevent him from being killed. Ben kills Jacob but then the timeline is changed.

    So, what happens. Time changes but in a way that ends up with the Losties still on the island. It's totally improbable unless you understand there is manipulation going on. We've seen this already. What does this kind of manipulation look like? A bunch of unusual coincidences. Things working out a certain way. I've guessed this before and I'm thinking things are still pointing this way. What we've seen as Lost is not necessarily the first iteration of this changing loop.

    Mr Awe
     
  7. spinnerlys

    spinnerlys Commander Red Shirt

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  8. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think it'll be totally reset. We'll get a new version of Lost, kind of like the Star Trek movie. The only question I have, will they have any memories of the changes. Logically no, but that's less dramatically satsifying. Perhaps the island protects the original memories.

    Mr Awe
     
  9. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Who says he's dead. He's been going around visiting the Losties at different points in time. He can time travel and he's weaving his own plan. He's got a plan and he's got time travel. and we've got something happening back in 1977 that can change time. You can bet this will lead up to a change where Jacob lives.

    It was asinine. He just went to great lengths to get back to the island and now he wants to make it so he never was on the island. He could go on living the life that he knows makes him miserable. I think the writers flubbed with their motivations for wanting to change things. It didn't quite work for me.

    Nah, they're not going to go through all of that rigamarole just to have things as they were before. Boring. Been there done that with shooting young Ben. You can bet there will be changes. Jacob has been manipulating things too. It's revealed that Jacob was directly responsible for ensuring that Hurley returns to the island. This enables that group to go back to 1977. Daniel states that that group was not even supposed to be there. What that groups does, changes the past. Ergo, Jacob changes the past by introducing Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid as random variables. It's clear that without them, Daniel's plan to change things dies with him. These characters push to keep Daniel's plan going even after he is killed.

    I think Jacobs plan is to change past so that he is not killed in 2007.

    Mr Awe
     
  10. Obiwanshinobi

    Obiwanshinobi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As I mentioned earlier and has been mentioned in other boards, Jacob's rival is presumably named Esau, who is the twin brother of Jacob.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau
     
  11. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Clearly, this was to get Sayid to return to the island. Just like his visit with Hurley. If she is still alive, Sayid stays on the mainland, isn't messing around with Alana, etc. He wanted that group to return to the island so that those characters (Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley) can go back in time and change the past. If those characters aren't there, Daniel's plan dies with him. Jacob is doing this to save himself.

    Mr Awe
     
  12. Obiwanshinobi

    Obiwanshinobi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ok correction on the Latin speak, that Richard said to Ilana to answer her question of What lies in the shadow of the statue? He actually says: "That which watched over all of us"
     
  13. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder how all of this will relate to backgammon come season 6.
     
  14. Gertch

    Gertch Admiral

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    Right now I'm not happy with it either. Or finding our our Losties are merely pawns in a battle of good vs evil.

    Maybe even smaller than that. Jacob setting up a chess move to change history so he wont actually be killed. By hand picking some people and setting them on a path to change the timeline then Locke is not around for his foe to use.

    But I'm sure they'll come up with something to make me love the idea.
     
  15. Spot's Meow

    Spot's Meow Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    First of all, I thought it was excellent and I can't wait to see next season!

    But sometimes I wonder if I am watching a different show than you folks. :lol:

    - Juliet. I am very much hoping she's dead because she is my least favorite character. But even if she weren't and even if I thought she was hot, why do you guys like her so much? First she just followed Jack around with that annoying look on her face and now she just follows Sawyer around. She serves no purpose, is just "there" and getting in the way. Even if I didn't hate her I wouldn't be upset at her possible death because she doesn't add anything to the show anyway.

    - Jacob. He seems like a huge prick to me. His enemy is as well. They both seem like heartless bitches. "What about you?" Man that was so mean! The worst possible thing you could say to Ben. I felt really bad for Ben in that moment. All his life he has been craving male parental attention, craving acceptance and for someone to be proud of him. And all the male figures in his life who he looks up to totally ignore him and treat him like shit. So either Jacob is an egotistical idiot or he wanted Ben to kill him.

    - Locke. I saw that some of you were upset about the real Locke being dead all this time because you liked the way he acted as leader this season. I have to really disagree there. I hated Locke this season, he was such an arrogant jerk! Sometimes he would be okay, seeming confident and sure of his purpose, but then he would say or do something that made him seem really heartless and evil. The new Locke was not a nice guy and I'm happy to find out that it wasn't actually Locke.

    - The bomb. I didn't think Jack's reasoning was all that crazy. I don't think he explained it well to Sawyer, but it seems to me like the attitude that he and the rest of them have (after they changed their minds) is that they basically have nothing to lose. Things have gone seriously wrong and either they are going to be involved in some crazy Incident or they are likely going to be killed by the Dharma folks. They could run away and live with Rose and Bernard but it looks like none of them would be satisfied with that. So their choices are be killed/live miserably, or drop the bomb and possibly die but also have a chance that things actually work out and all this misery would be undone. I would have done it! Their reasoning could be explained well by the phrase "fuck it."


    I yelled out with joy when I saw Vincent! I have been wondering all season where he was. Now we know about him and Rose and Bernard and I felt happy for them. I'd like to be in their position.

    A little too much love triangle stuff this episode, but it was okay because it seemed like they were wrapping it up for the most part. Jack and Kate belong together and Juliet and Sawyer belonged together, that seemed clear by the end of the episode and after the little talk that Jack and Sawyer had. So hopefully there will be little to no focus on this next season.

    I don't know what will end up happening with the time travel. Where or when they get transported, if they die, if that was the actual Incident or if they changed time, I have no idea. I'm not even going to try and make any guesses on that front. Just wait until next season.

    I think that's all I have to say for now!

    ETA: Oh wait, I thought of more to add. :lol:

    I feel confident that Jacob's enemy dude has been the smoke monster, and that he can take the form of the dead bodies on the island, which is why he was Christian for a while. I also think that he inhabited the bodies of Rouseau's pals, which is why they were acting different and weird. When they got sucked into that hole in the ground they died and came back out as the enemy dude. This could be why he killed others as well, like Eko, so he could take their bodies (but didn't end up using them).
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  16. Obiwanshinobi

    Obiwanshinobi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    maybe Jacob represents life (white backgammon piece) and Esau represents death (black backgammon piece), although Jacob is a bit mean spirited and selfish, so he chooses who lives and who dies.
     
  17. Gertch

    Gertch Admiral

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    I didn't see Jacob as mean or selfish. He wasn't going to answer to Ben because he knows what was about the happen. And obviously wanted it to.
     
  18. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    I wouldn't count John Locke out just yet.
     
  19. Obiwanshinobi

    Obiwanshinobi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ok maybe mean spirited and selfish were the wrong choice of words to say, but thats actually not the part i meant. The part where he let Sayid's fiance get ran over, so that she dies, thus causing him to eventually come back to the island, basically using him and the others as tools to his survival, staying at least a couple steps in front of Esau, like this was one gigantic chess game like somebody mentioned above. But he had to sacrifice her in order for Sayid to come back. He could have saved her, but didn't because she didn't fit into his plans. That's what I meant. I'm aware he knew Ben was going to kill him, it even sounded like he provoked him to.
     
  20. Spot's Meow

    Spot's Meow Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I believe he wanted Ben to kill him too, but that doesn't make sense with the other theory that people seem to be putting out, which is that Jacob has gone through all this trouble of getting everyone to the island and changing the timeline so that he isn't killed. Why go through all of that if you can just stop Ben from killing you in the first place?