Lost 5x03: "Jughead"

Discussion in 'Lost' started by Agent Richard07, Jan 28, 2009.

?

Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    45.8%
  2. Above Average

    49.4%
  3. Average

    3.6%
  4. Below Average

    1.2%
  5. Poor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. IndyJones

    IndyJones Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2002
    Location:
    Chicago

    That actress play Dennis Leary's wife on Rescue Me, and I love her to death. Here's hoping we see her again.:techman:





    Did anyone else notice the artwork in Widmore's office? The painting closest to him on his right side very clearly said 'NAMASTE'. That can't have been a coincidence. I love this show for stuff like that!

    Edit to add - Sorry, just realized we've seen the painting before. I may not be observant the first time around, but I catch stuff eventually!;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
  2. startrekwatcher

    startrekwatcher Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    A few other things I noticed as I rewatched this episode.

    Young Widmore referred to the young woman as "Ellie". That pretty much confirms she is indeed Mrs Hawkins. I don't think it was ever stated onscreen but as I rewatched ep 5.2 tonite the note at the bottom of the screen gave her first name as Eloise. Also another fact to support this is Mrs Hawkins is Dan's mom is Eloise was the name of the mouse he moved through time and released in the maze in the flasback in "The Constant". He named it after his mom. I don't know if I would be flattered or insulted:lol: Also the young actress portraying her did a pretty good job with some of Flanagan's facial expressions--the harsh face and clenched jaw.

    Also Dan looks to be in his 40s so that would put his conception/birth in the 60s. Assuming the island isn't conducive to a pleasant successful birth like it currently is, I guess she left sometime in the next ten years. I wonder if Dan's father is going to be significant also. Only person right now I can think of is Widmore.

    Also in "Flashes Before Your Eyes"-- she told it was Desmond's destiny to go to the island. I'm curious about that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
  3. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Location:
    Hotel Transylvania
    It was okay. I really hope the writers end the Losties jumping through time on the island every episode by the middle of the season. It's getting hard keeping track of everything.

    Oh yeah.

    Please don't kill Penny.
    Please don't kill Penny.
    Please don't kill Penny.
    Please don't kill Penny.
     
  4. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Location:
    North Ryde, NSW
    Sorry to be anal about this, but I've seen this wrong other places too, so I might as well point it out here:

    It's "Hawking" not "Hawkins". Hawking, like Stephen Hawking.
     
  5. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Location:
    North Ryde, NSW
    Another thing I just realized: The time traveling took them back to 1954.....which is an even 50 years before 2004, the year that Flight 815 crashed. Don't know if that means anything or not.

    Also, with regard to the nuke testing, Lostpedia says that the bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima detonated at 8:15am:

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Numbers
     
  6. ITL

    ITL Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Location:
    Palace Of The Brine
    What I want to know is....why did two of the people in Oxford sound like they were from the east-end of London? Cor bloimey, Meery Pippins!

    :D
     
  7. John Picard

    John Picard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Excellent episode, and the Charles Widmore twist at the end was well done. :techman:
     
  8. gh4chiefs

    gh4chiefs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    Jefferson City, MO
    Well I stuck around for another episode this week and it was a little easier to wrap my feeble brain around it this time. The time travel aspect was a litle more "Star Trekish" (for lack of a better term) and I could kind of keep up with what's going on. Although I missed that the gal who was guarding Dan was possibly/probably his mother.

    As much as I bitch about the writers, I'll also give them a kudos on not dicking around in explaining who the people in the uniforms were from last week.
     
  9. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Aside from the scenes between Locke, Richard, and Widmore, this episode was very confusing. I was expecting a lot better due to all the 9.5 and 10 reviews I saw, but I was still very impressed with the last 15 minutes
    and am giving it an above average.
     
  10. Mallet

    Mallet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Was this the first episode of the entire series not to have Jack in it?
     
  11. brianbeercan

    brianbeercan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Jack's missed a few. This is actually the second Desmond episode he hasn't been in, after Flashes Before Your Eyes. He also didn't appear in The Other 48 Days, Meeting Kevin Johnson, Tricia Tanaka Is Dead, and Enter 77. He had a little bit of a dry spell there for a while in season 3.
     
  12. Mallet

    Mallet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Just some new thinking points, random thoughts, etc...

    -What is the hierarchy of the Others?

    We can assume it goes Jacob=>Current leader (For example: Ben, Locke). But where does Richard fit into this Hierarchy? It looks like he is the leader back in 1954, but is he? An if he is, why isn't he the leader later on?

    -How did the US military get on and off the Island without apparent problems?

    To find, report back, transport a nuke and build a test site the military would have to keep going on and off the island. How could they do that? Did the "barrier" around the island not exist back in the 1950's? Is it something new that the Others created after this military incursion? Is there a military fleet off the cost of the island in the 1950's (They would never transport a nuke back then without major military security)? What does the US military know currently (in 2004) about the Island?

    -How much power/influence do the Others have off the Island?

    We know Richard was back on the mainland as early as 1956 (to witness John's birth). A few years later he tells John's mom he runs a school for special kids. We also know they run a somewhat known major company (Mitland biotech). They have agents in lots of places and send agents on missions off the island. Why do they do all of this? What is their agenda beyond protecting the island? How many Others are there on and off the island? There must be a whole lot of them if they can be doing all of this.

    -How did Widmore "lose" the island?

    He refers to the Island as his. Does that mean that he was the leader of the Others at some point in the past? Why/how/when did he get to be off the Island? Was he off the Island at some point and then the island was moved while he was away? Did he move the island like Ben did some time in the past and that is why he left? I can see a scenario where he, as the leader, had to move the island and gave power to Ben before doing it, just like Ben gave power to John before doing the same thing. He must have been banished thou, because otherwise why wouldn't the Others just bring him back to the Island's new location?

    -Where does Alva Hanso fit into all of this?

    Remember him? The Hanso Foundation was a big deal early on in the series. Where do they fit into all of this. How did he find the Island and start the Dharma Initiative? Did Widmore help him do this by telling him tales of the Island?

    Those are just a few things I've been thinking about this morning.
     
  13. Corran Horn

    Corran Horn Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Location:
    I-L
    Yeah, that'd be depressing.

    Of course, killing Jin was depressing.

    It's one of the reasons I'm pretty sure he's alive.
     
  14. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Location:
    Away!
    ^ Ever since her character was killed off on the Sarah Connor chronicles, I've just been waiting for Penny to kick the bucket too. :(
     
  15. auntiehill

    auntiehill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Location:
    geeking out
    ^ You know, I was thinking exactly the same thing while I was watching. "Please don't let Penny die, like she did on Sarah Conner."
     
  16. DeafPoet

    DeafPoet Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Damon and Carlton have said that Richard is kind of the Panchen Lama (Wiki it. I had to) of the Others. Meaning, he's kind of the Number 2 for life and he's responsible for choosing the actual leader with Jacob's guidance.

    As to what's going on in 1954, I'd say the actual leader was off elsewhere or they were going through a period where there wasn't one. In either case, Richard would be the go-to guy.

    There's really no evidence that any US personnel ever left the island. Richard killed them all. So how do a bunch of army guys end up there with a nuke? Perhaps some ship or aircraft was bound elsewhere and wrecked upon the island, Rousseau or 815 style.

    I'm very much of the feeling that the island's always been hard to find and also to leave. After all, Richard in 1954 said how to leave the island is privileged information. Getting on a ship and sailing off isn't exactly classified material.

    No discrepancies here with the questions I'm asking. If the Island is the be-all-and-end-all for the Others, why bother with stuff in the real world? We'll find out in good time I'm sure.
     
  17. Emh

    Emh The Doctor Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Durham, North Carolina
    Fantastic episode. Much better than last week's two-episode opener. Of course it helped that there was no Jack and Kate and focused greatly on Desmond and Locke. :D

    During this episode, I began wondering if there was any pattern to the time shifts, especially considering there hadn't been one for awhile (until the end of the episode, of course). I don't expect a solid explanation (and I expect it to be mostly arbitrary), but I do hope it'll be addressed on some level.

    Speaking of time traveling and addressing important questions, I was VERY happy when Penny asked Desmond why he suddenly remembered the memory of Faraday at that moment in their personal timelines. Considering they brought up this question, I really hope it's something they will address at length later on because that's something that can be very confusing, even for a Doctor Who fan like myself (where personal timelines are often quite confusing). ;)

    I fully expect Faraday and company to suddenly zap back to the time period where Richard and Ellie are because Faraday didn't fix the bomb (and as he said, the Island is still there 50 years later). Speaking of Faraday, it seems likely he worked for DHARMA at some point in his past (and I previously just assumed that he was just with the other Losties when he passed Pierre Chang in the mine shaft), but I also don't think he was always with them, i.e. he has time traveled through the Island before and was with the DHARMA folks for only short period of time. I don't think he's really old like Richard thanks to the Island's healing effects if for no other reason than I feel like that his personality is one that developed now as oppose to in the 50's or 70's, either with the US military or DHARMA.

    Two tidbits that I loved:

    Desmond and Penny named their child Charlie! I really should have seen that coming considering I noticed the deliberately avoided naming the kid when we first saw him. Great tribute to a missed character. :(

    Young Charles Widmore! So he was one of the Others/Hostiles and at some point he was forced off the Island or kept away. I'm guessing there was some kind of power struggle between him and Richard and Richard has the means of kicking off the Island. Considering how old he is "now," I can understand why he's such a bitter old man about the whole Island business. More than ever, I can't help but wonder who Penny's mother is (hm...and whether Penny was born on the Island).

    While Rebecca Mader is hot, I'm not all that upset that Charlotte has died because her character has been mostly pointless. She has been almost entirely defined as the women Faraday loved. We never found out why she was looking for polar bears in Tunisa.

    I'm convinced more than ever by the face that Desmond is heading to L.A. that Mrs. Hawking is indeed Faraday's mother. However, I'm worried for Penny's sake because Ben and his blood vow against Widmore is also there. :(

    Lastly, I momentarily expected Ellie to be Danielle. But who knows...maybe she is...
     
  18. CaptJimboJones

    CaptJimboJones Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2002
    Location:
    Hotlanta
    She sure is. It was kind of hard to picture such an adorable young woman holding that rifle and acting a total badass. She pulled it off, though. Good actress.
     
  19. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    So the episode title and the bomb are called Jughead. Then on Life on Mars, they mention Archie and Jughead.

    Sam Tyler has been screwed up by the Island! Locke is his constant!
     
  20. DeafPoet

    DeafPoet Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Anything's possible, I'll readily admit. But I think we've got Ellie nailed down. I watched the episode again today after having read Mr Light's business last night about "The Lie" Enhanced and the way the actress portrays Ellie practically screams Fionnula Flannigan.

    Oh, and good to see ya, Meh. Did I miss you in the fallout from last week? Wouldn't be a Lost season without your zany theories.