Lost 5x01: "Because You Left" & 5x02: "The Lie"

Discussion in 'Lost' started by Agent Richard07, Jan 20, 2009.

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Grade the two-hour premiere...

  1. The first hour was EXCELLENT.

    61.5%
  2. The first hour was ABOVE AVERAGE.

    30.2%
  3. The first hour was AVERAGE.

    7.3%
  4. The first hour was BELOW AVERAGE.

    1.0%
  5. The first hour was POOR.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. The second hour was EXCELLENT.

    39.6%
  7. The second hour was ABOVE AVERAGE.

    41.7%
  8. The second hour was AVERAGE.

    12.5%
  9. The second hour was BELOW AVERAGE.

    3.1%
  10. The second hour was POOR.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. label

    label Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Here's what I got from the episode.

    The Island only moved to those who were outside of "the radius" as Daniel phrased it. If you're on Daniel's boat when the event happened, the Island never moved from their vantage point. It was only to those outside the radius that the island would have appeared to disappear.

    Also, the Island itself is not jumping through time, everyone else is, execpt of the hostiles/others who are tethered to the island. This is why when Locke asks where everyone went, Richard replies, "we didn't leave, you did".
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  2. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    One thing I'd forgotten until now, but I found it kinda annoying that Sawyer only mentioned Locke as being missing from the Still-Lostaways numbers. I mean, I understand why the writers did it if they're not yet ready to bring her back into the story, but after the fuss Sawyer made about looking after her last season, doesn't Claire deserve a mention from him?
     
  3. spocksbrain

    spocksbrain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    At the very end, they hide the face of that old British woman Ben seeks out in the church for a few moments so that she can turn around for a "big reveal". Um, were we supposed to recognize her? I sure didn't. Maybe that's Farraday's mother (who is supposed to be at Oxford)? She seems to know some physics. She was also typing on an old Apple IIe, like in the Swan Station.

    If this entire season is bouncing back and forth through time on the island and the Six trying to get it together on the mainland, that's going to be pretty boring.
     
  4. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm noticing that a lot of people didn't. She was in Desmond's time-travelling "flashback" to 1996 and she knew about him and the island. Something like that should have made her a pretty memorable character.
     
  5. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I gave them both an above average since I was entertained by them, but I really don't know how to feel about what is going on. I liked Lost as a character show with sci-fi elements, but now it is going all sci-fi with little character work. I guess I'm the one person who liked the flashback format. ;)
     
  6. Emh

    Emh The Doctor Premium Member

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    (Only just getting the chance to post my thoughts...gives you some idea how busy I am these days)

    Both episodes were a lot of fun, although like the previous two season premieres, they didn't really wow me like the first two season premierses. However, there were some great highlights:

    Marvin Candle (and we finally discover his real name!) not in a video! That was a great opening, right up there with season 2's opening with Desmond. I wasn't at all surprised to see Daniel suddenly showing up (and not just because I saw photos of other characters being dressed up as DHARMA crew).

    Speaking of which, I loved the time jumping (almost) everyone is now experiencing. I bet Richard and the Others aren't jumping because they're native to the Island and thus aren't affected by the Island.

    It was wonderful to see Ana-Lucia again (and I figured it was her the moment we saw her body frame). I love her creepy, departing line "Oh, Libby says hi." :lol:

    Seeing Ethan again was cool, especially since we didn't get to see him at all last season. Hopefully we'll see more of him (and Goodwin) again this season.

    I loved seeing the beechcraft crashing and the fact that Locke was standing right there to see it crash. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point if the Losties are present for the wrecking of the Black Rock. :D

    Oh! And the flaming arrows attack! That was awesome. Had to be the natives/hostiles. I can't wait to see another time jump to that period (perhaps see the full statue!).

    Last, but not least, it was very cool to see Ms. Hawking popping up again. I figured it was her by her figure. I can't wait to learn more about her (and this Jill person...Annie perhaps?).

    Otherwise, the two episodes weren't nothing special, although it's always fun to see Ben in operation. Right now that's the only aspect of the "Three Years Later" segments that I'm enjoying.
     
  7. Mallet

    Mallet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Vancouver
    Lost ratings not so good...

    From The Hollywood Reporter:


    If "Lie[to me]" settles close to the 4.6 rating that concluded its hour in the weeks to come, Fox will be very pleased. Plus, "Lie" beat "Lost" among total viewers.
    The two-hour “Lost” debut (11.4 million, 5.0/12) was down 25% from last year in the adult demo. The heavily serialized and increasingly complex drama was expected to drop, though this is a steeper percentage than one would have liked (if only the show's ratings could time-travel back to 2004).

    Still, no worries about it being canceled or anything even remotely like that, but then with so much time travel and sci-fi now involved in the series I wonder how the ratings will be next week?
     
  8. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not surprised. I was thinking that these two episodes might have gone too far into the realm of "scifi nonsense" for many viewers and I was wondering what the damage would be.
     
  9. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    I'm trying to find a video online of Hurley's summary of Lost. Anyone know where one is?
     
  10. Gertch

    Gertch Admiral

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    Some people I know didn't even tune in because they were lost with the show. It's been too long since the last episode. Totally stupid to go to 16 episodes.

    Oh well. Just one more season to go after this and we wont have to worry about it.
     
  11. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Pennsylvania
    The only problem I have with the episode(s) is the bit where Faraday meets Des in the past. The show tells us that you can't change the past/future, but why didn't Des remember this incident? Given the fact that Kelvin is the only living soul he saw on the Island for all those years, surely he would remember encountering this stranger who told him to meet his mom when he gets off the Island?! Or is there going to be some rule that fogs your memory of the time-traveling event, and that's why Faraday's mind is all scrambled because he's time-traveled extensively? It seems a little convenient... it would have been nice if Des remarked that Faraday looked vaguely familiar when they first met or something like that, surely they had all this planned out last season right?
     
  12. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Like I said earlier, maybe Dan did change the past. He says that you can't, but maybe he'll realize that you can.
     
  13. Spot's Meow

    Spot's Meow Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I think that when Faraday said Desmond was "special" he might have meant that Desmond has the ability to change the past/future. Why else would he knock on his door and start telling him about the helicopter and saving those on it when he thinks they have all died? It seems like he believes Desmond has some control over whether the helicopter people live or die, which means it is not all up to "fate" and that it can be changed. I think this is why Desmond is special. But I don't know, it all gets so confusing.
     
  14. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    ^It appears that maybe something about what he did with the Hatch at the end of season two and his subsequent attempts to save Charlie has made him that way.

    I am going to be the voice of dissent here and give both episodes a Below Average. I do not like the time travel plot at all. I never like time travel stories when they haven't been thought through and this one does not appear to have been.
     
  15. DeafPoet

    DeafPoet Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I saw an interview wherein Carlton says one of the large themes of the season is whether or not Daniel's "rules about time travel" are true. Like good little Lost characters, apparently people are going to try to screw with fate regardless of his warnings.

    I think Dan's probably got it mostly right, but there's probably some glaring exception that proves the rule. Saying it's Desmond wouldn't be a stretch at all, but I'm guessing there's going to be a cool twist on how that works.
     
  16. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    It's possible that that's where they're going with this, but I really hope not. As I don't think it's really possible to have a logically self-consistent set of time travel rules with exceptions like that ("you can't change history, except when you can").

    The alternative explanation, the one that I would prefer, is that Desmond is "special" not because he can change history, but because of how his memory works. If there's something about his memory that makes him quickly forget his encounter with Faraday, and then suddenly remember it years later when he needs the info, then there would be no problem with violating causality. Faraday's encounter with him would be something that had always happened, had always been part of the timeline, but he would have forgotten about it, and then remembered it at the right moment.

    This is one of the freaky things when the time travel rules are governed by the Novikov self-consistency principle ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle .... aka, time travel where there's one timeline and it is immutable and cannot be changed). The faultiness of your own memory can make it appear as though you're "changing" history, when in fact the supposed "change" was actually the way things always were.

    I was actually thinking about some day writing a time travel story along these very lines: A time traveller goes back into the past, confident that no matter what he does, he can't change the past, so he engages in fairly reckless behavior. But then, he starts to realize that he's having an enormous effect on history, and slowly comes to the realization that all of his memories of the future, of the things that he supposedly can't "change" are completely fabricated memories that he had implanted in himself as part of an experiment to see how big of an impact he could have on history.

    Hmmm.....OK, maybe I didn't explain that last part that well. Trust me, it makes sense though.
     
  17. Desmond is special because he got caught in the "hatch explosion" and as such, got knocked out of time... or to put it another way... "becuase of all that semi-incomprehensible time crap that happened to Desmond in Season 3 and 4 because of the hatch explosion". At least that's the way I read it.
     
  18. gh4chiefs

    gh4chiefs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I appreciate the reasoned response. Often if I post something with a negative spin to it I get blasted. And I realize that a lot of people love the show as is, and I'm perfectly cool with that. And I'm trying hard to to be one of those people, but I think Gertch summed it up pretty well below as to how I'm feeling.

    Yeah that's it exactly, it's just so much coming at you and they seem to keep adding further layers and for me it's reached critical mass. A good example from this week was the flaming arrows scene, or the scene with the guys in military uniforms. Just who the hell are they?. Just more mysteries on top of mysteries still yet unexplained.

    Some time back I coined the phrase "LOST fatigue" to explain why I've avoided arc shows similar to LOST like the plague. I don't see myself ever getting wrapped up in a story like this again. I don't have the energy, time, or inclination to get this wrapped up in another show. And I think the ONLY thing that keeps me hanging onto LOST now is that the end is in sight. At some point there gonna have to "shit or get off the pot" with the mysteries.
     
  19. Mallet

    Mallet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So did Locke and Eko (and maybe Charlie).
     
  20. Yeah but if you recall, Desmond is the one who got knocked into a time travel adventure, as depicted in early season 3.