Lois, Clark & Superman?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Taylirious, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. Taylirious

    Taylirious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Man Of Steel *Spoilers*



    I have never been a fan of Lois not knowing Clark/Superman were one in the same. It seems fine for the rest of the world but it seems insulting to Lois. One complaint of Man Of Steel is she knows right away about Clark. I like this and in fact it is something I hated about SMALLVILLE because Clark did a lot of strange things and Lois was like whatever and it took so long for Clark to be honest with her. I cannot disagree more when this criticism is used against Man Of Steel. Lois should know and that trust is an awesome thing.

    I know there is a history of mind games with Lois, Clark & Superman, I never liked it.
     
  2. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    In this, you are far from alone.
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is it? Not one made by me, that's for sure.
     
  4. Taylirious

    Taylirious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ My bad. I read this and forgot to put it in the OP.

    http://supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=14422

    Jerry Seinfeld's Opinion on "Man of Steel"

    I actually respect JS on Superman...but don't agree with him here.

    ETA: Seems directed at the Lois/Clark/Superman dynamic...he does adopt a secret identity by the end of the movie.

    ADD: But I heard reviews too that complained about the same thing in my OP.
     
  5. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The whole Lois/Clark/Superman triangle thing may have been funny at first, but after a few decades it became a bit disturbing and insulting. It made Lois this total moron, and it made Clark this douchebag who enjoyed playing a rather bizarre mind game with the woman he was supposedly in love with.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The 'Superman reveal' is one of the few things about the theatrical cut of Superman II (along with the "General, would you care to step outside?" line) that's preferable to the Donner cut.

    (In the theatrical version, Clark stumbles and accidentally moves his hand into a fireplace, and that's what makes Lois realize he's Superman. In the Donner cut, she purposely tricks him with a gun loaded with blanks. :wtf: )
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  7. Fist McStrongpunch

    Fist McStrongpunch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One of the only good things about Man of Steel was that Lois Lane for once wasn't stupid.
     
  8. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There actually was a valid literary point to Lois not knowing that Clark was Superman.

    For about 50 years one of the main themes of Superman if not the main theme was the idea of the secret hero inside of us that others could not see.

    Lois was the symbol-the human face-of all of that. She was the woman that Clark loved but whom he could not share his secret with.

    It added a certain tragedy to the character. It also harkened back to classic and powerful myths about Gods in disguise.

    When Lois knows Clark is Superman all of that is out the window.
     
  9. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But the film series is going to have about (let's say they make four of these) eight hours of film - it's a narrative device for a long running series you don't need for a short finite series. moreover, it's a narrative device we have seen multiple times in various forms over 50 years so doing something different with one version isn't a problem for me.
     
  10. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just because something is new and different doesn't mean it always works, however.
     
  11. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed; I had many problems with MOS' script, but this wasn't one of them. Whether this version of Clark Kent can be an interesting character remains to be seen, but at least we presumably won't have to put up with as much of the aw-shucks "comical" bumbling disguise.
     
  12. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    I can happily live without the Triangle in this series of movies as well.
     
  13. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How do you know if something works until you try it?
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    You don't know that he didn't Super Hypnotize her again.

    Or locked her in a basement chained to a radiator for two weeks "programming" her to forget the good old fashioned human way.

    One of the few things I liked about the Originals is the Villain has this bartender girl for a "friend" who only knows that he is a vampire when they are together, but then forgets that vampires exist and that he is a vampire the second she leaves his company. It made for great comedy as she's trying to prove that vampires exist or someone is stealing her missing time while simultaneously she begins to accept that she is going insane, and then on the other side of the looking glass, back when she's talking to her vampire "friend" she is yelling at him becuase she doesn't like how crazy she gets whenever she forgets about vampires and what he is doing to her.
     
  15. the G-man

    the G-man Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was tried in the comic books for about twenty years, post-Byrne. It was tried on "Lois and Clark" eventually as well.

    You also have the fact that, for the most part, this has become a trope of nearly every superhero movie since the 1989 Batman.

    At this point, it's less something "new and different" and more something "been there, done that."
     
  16. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    My only issue with it is that she figured out who he was before he was even Superman. In effect, she never figures out that Superman is Clark Kent. She instead discovers that Clark Kent is just some dude who has superpowers. I'd have much rather have had Superman be known to the world first, and then have her figure out who he was from there (with no need for her having ever met Clark Kent, let alone be in any kind of relationship with him, romantic or professional, first).

    In the movie, he never really adopts a secret identity. He adopts a hero identity.
     
  17. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    FWIW, a lot of Golden Age heroes had civilian confidantes...many of them girlfriends.
     
  18. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Indeed. Lois and Clark sharing the secret is one of the things I like about Man of Steel.

    That's fine. Clark as the real person is better anyway.
     
  19. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    Also, I didn't get from the Seinfeld quote that he specifically had a problem with Lois knowing the secret...just that the classic secret identity didn't come into the film until the very end.
     
  20. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why can't he? The reason we're given is, "If she knows my secret identity, she'll be in danger from my enemies." This totally ignores the fact that being publicly associated with him puts her in danger from his enemies anyway!

    In-universe, popular perception of Lois is either as Superman's romantic interest or his exclusive reporter, just as Jimmy Olson is known as "Superman's Pal." Any villain can kidnap or otherwise threaten them to get an edge.

    They could torture Lois to find out the secret identity regardless of whether she actually knows it. The only difference, then, is whether Superman has confided it to her out of trust, or kept it from her out of self-interest. Which action is more heroic?

    The same is true for any hero who's publicly associated with any civilian. The most egregious example is Iron Man supposedly being Tony Stark's bodyguard. I'm sure Stan Lee thought that was a great twist on the "secret identity" concept, but it makes no sense at all. Stark (and his entire company) become a great big target for any villain. They're actually more vulnerable than if the Iron Man identity was just some free agent.

    Is there any other convincing reason why Superman can't tell Lois???

    The character shouldn't publicly associate with ANY civilians for their own safety. Cut off from society, forever alone due to your sense of responsibility... that's how you could portray a tragedy.