Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Luminus, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've been watching several episodes on Netflix and recently finished watching this episode. In it, there's a line that says "Starfleet has dispatched two vessels to meet with Voyager, scheduled for five or six years' time."

    However, at this point, Voyager is at least 30,000 light years from home at maximum warp. How does Starfleet have vessels capable of going that distance in less than 6 years? Is this why the Enterprise E is capable of flying from the Neutral Zone to Earth so quickly in First Contact?
     
  2. Laydin

    Laydin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Voyager was 30K light years from Sector 001 (Earth). Federations have long range exploration vessels in the outskirts of their boarders and that's probably the ships they sent to meet Voyager.
     
  3. DeepSpaceWine

    DeepSpaceWine Commander Red Shirt

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    Writing in Voyager got very bad in the last 2 seasons. We get stupid ideas like being able to use any red giant to form a geodesic fold and while most matter cannot survive it, somehow nanoprobes can and somehow it's 'easier' for Ferengi to try and get some nanoprobes from the Delta Quadrant than scour for Borg corpses around the Alpha or Beta Quadrants. Then some crazy Bajoran decides to revive his rebellion... 30,000ly away.

    Star Trek kept their technology limits somewhat consistent, but with the permanent contact via "Pathfinder" (how the hell could Barclay adequately guess Voyager's position given *FIVE* leaps of hundreds to thousands of light years since "Message in a Bottle"?), all logic and all technology limits went out the window. Even travelling more than several light years, a message would be delayed (need subspace relays and even then there was a delay) and here, one can communicate across the galaxy once a month, then we get transphasic torpedoes and ablative hull armor.

    I loved Voyager, but there were many cringe-filled episodes late in (I find them more unbearable than "Threshold", "The Fight", and the so-called Trilogy of Terror, none of which I think are that bad), and "Life Line" (prodigal son returns, wants estranged father to love him and recognize his accomplishments. Father is too stubborn to ask for help. "Father, help me help you") is like a story from some cheesy 80s drama.

    I would actually pin the blame on the permanent contact concept. It led to multiple Barclay episodes, including him & future Janeway stealing 1 episode in the series finale 2-parter and the viewer being forced to accept him as an honorary crewmember (it was the prelude to "These are the Voyages"), each of which was either not centered on the Voyager crew ("Pathfinder", "Inside Man") or had an atrocious concept ("Life Line", "Repression", "Inside Man", "Author, Author"). Permanent contact also removed that isolation that defined Voyager. Suddenly, 30,000ly in any direction isn't so far away. And we get Ferengi and Klingons and holograms imitating all the familiar races too (all of that except for the Ferengi is not blamable on permanent contact).
     
  4. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Captain Captain

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    The continuity error I find much more astounding is how Lewis Zimmerman in Life Line has next to nothing in common with the man we met in Doctor Bashir, I Presume.

    Note to Voyager's writers: If a character's established personality doesn't match the story you'd like to tell, change the story - not the character!
     
  5. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    30,000 light years is 30 years at maximum warp. Those deep space vessels could only possibly be somewhere in the Beta quadrant (let's say near the Delta Quadrant, for argument's sake). 30 - 6 = a 24 year difference. There's no way Starfleet has vessels that are 24 years away from Earth at maximum warp.

    I think what DeepSpaceWine said was right.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why not?

    Vulcans live for 300 years, they wouldn't mind undertaking a 50 year long mission if it seemed logical.

    Kelvans are basically immortal, and a few of them have probably signed up since their run in with Kirk.

    Then of course they could have been generational ships sent out a century early.

    You all remember that Robert Picardo wrote (most?) of this episode?
     
  7. BlobVanDam

    BlobVanDam Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    How long was the initial journey? 70 years for 70,000 light years? They were down to about 30,000 by that point, so that's 30 years. So for a ship going to same speed to meet them half way from Earth would take about 15 years. But they wouldn't be dispatching ships to meet with them if it wasn't taking any time off the journey. Did they mention the ships as being faster? I can't remember. But to catch up in 5 years, they'd need to be going about 5 times faster than Voyager?

    If they had an experimental warp drive, it's not unrealistic considering the way the warp scale works. Or maybe the ship just had a much higher sustainable cruising velocity than Voyager. I know they couldn't make their minds up about Voyager's true cruise speed.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "deep space" vessels. Which probably means cities in space deigned to exist perpetually outside and well past the Federation boarders and even known space. Picard was talking about colony ships that could support 15,000 civilians in Ensigns of Command...

    A deep range craft to be in deep space had to have been flying for a while which means it would be an older design, and slower than the newer deep space ships still making their way out of the heart of the empire, unless there is some quantum advance in technology that the latest ships start lapping the last generation.
     
  9. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So the 2 deep space crafts with probably a decade old or more technology is going to rendezvous with Voyager and what? Slow them down with their archaic engines? After all this analysis, I'm pretty sure this is an error.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're forgetting that these ships are dropping communication buoys (We saw Archer's Enterprise doing this) extending the border of known space, so although they are a hell of a long way out, they still have a clear line of communication with Starfleet command and earth.

    They're kept apprised of new technology that they can fabricate aboardship start of the art tech to replace anything gathering cobwebs so that they're not driving exactly an antique.

    Besides a decade back would only put such a ship comparable with Enterprise d, and three decades back would be comparable to Rachel Garrets Enterprise C which didn't seem too unimpressive.
     
  11. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Some tech can't be outfitted. We see that in "Endgame." It's one of the reasons why new ships have to be built in the first place, instead of just upgrading old ships. 10 years is a VERY long time, in terms of technology. Many things would have changed.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Benteen smacked the shit out of the Defiant in an Excelsior Class Refit.

    There's only one reason that the Intrepid wouldn't be compatible with bog standard future tech... And that's if the model was so crappy and flawed that it had been recalled (Or they had all been destroyed in battle after som admiral foolishly thought any Intrepid could do what Voyager had?), in so that the engineers didn't have to worry about making the Intrepid compatiable.

    Would the USS Rhode Island, Captain Kim's dinky little Nova Class beard be allowed out of Spacedock if it didn't have all the up to date features that even a shuttle craft had? Ipso facto, Admiral Janeway could have taken Kim's ship from the mothball fleet, spanked it. Kim didn't agree to talk because he loved the old coot, it's because his ship didn't stand a chance against a one woman dingy if it had all the modcons and his ship didn't.

    (I changed my mind half way through this post. Weird, no?)
     
  13. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    How, exactly, are they going to refit these ships without Drydoc? The fact that they did it on Voyager is highly suspect, but then that's my point. It's just not believable.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They land.
     
  15. zar

    zar Captain Captain

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    You only say that because we've been living in a technological growth spurt since around the 60s, which may be coming to an end.
     
  16. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Why would they need to go 30,000 light years? Is Voyager just going to sit and wait for them?

    Remember, Voyager and the other ships are going to meet halfway. So, each ship only has to go 15,000 light years. Taking 6 years, then the ships will have to travel about 2,500 ly each year.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But we've seen Picards Enterprise in season one (2364) and We've seen Rachel Garrets Enterprise from 2344, so we're observing that there's no clear mark of stagnation.

    However that Romulan telek Rimor couldn't tell the difference between the Starfleet vessels of his own era and that of 20 years later... Although the Romulans had taken a break, sealed their border and Telek probably had contentions with Robert April's Enterprise in his youth, so it's like trying to explain an ipod to your grandparents.
     
  18. zar

    zar Captain Captain

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    The numbers according to VOY are 1000 light-years per year. So subtract 6000 twice, and Hansen's ships would have had to have already been traveling 18 years in Voyager's direction. Or more, assuming maximum warp was lower 18 years ago (or said ships stopped for lunch on the way).
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Voyager can do 1000 light years a year, and the other ship might not have been so quick.

    A milder contention is that these other ships have already voyaged almost 30 thousand light years from earth probably before caretaker stole Voyager, which means that if they had set off on these deep space missions 10, 15 or 20 years ago that that information should have been on Voyagers database and Janeway should have been bloody aiming for them from day one just to see a friendly face.

    Hell, it's even possible that one of these ships, or another other Deep Space vessel might have been in communications range of the Sikarian transit network that Janeway could have fired off some subspce radio messages towards where she knew these ships to be if not Cytheria back in season one, even if it took them a couple years to strike their target.

    Janeway made such a big deal about how it was 75 years to get back to the AQ, which isn't exactly true. maybe 70 years to the AQ/BQ border, and then 5 years to get to earth from there, but it would seem it was only 30 years to intersect with the front of Starfleets corps of exploration vessels extending the frontier of scientific knowledge across the face of the galaxy.

    Her ignorance of the galaxy is (COU-FERENGI-OUGH!!) is unsettling.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  20. zar

    zar Captain Captain

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    How about this: Voyager was thrown away in the 2-o'clock direction; the closest deep space missions are in the 4-o'clock position. So initially it would have taken even longer to rendezvous there than to just aim dead center.

    But then one or more of the times they were catapulted "1 year closer", they weren't actually thrown 1000LY straight toward the center, but several more LY directly "south". Thus making rendezvous with the suddenly closer deep space ships a viable option.