LGBT Characters in Trek (Help and no flames Please)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by neogothboy74, Apr 3, 2009.

  1. LutherSloan

    LutherSloan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Location:
    Doing the Federation's dirty work
    Most of it was staged, but in the Shards and Shadows MU collection, MU Keiko Ishikawa at least seems somewhat aroused by MU Tasha Yar when they are basically pretending to have sex in order to cover a message transfer from Tasha.
     
  2. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, United States
    Cool. I'll take a look at this later and nail down the pages and everything. I'm actually thinking about rereading the entire DS9 Relaunch, though I don't know when I'll find the time. I loved that whole series but have only reread Worlds of DS9, Volume 2. Random, I know, but I loved both stories in that volume so much!

    Thanks Scott. It's a lot of work, but a lot of fun, and I had a LOT of help, for which I'm very grateful!

    Even staged sex between same sex charaters supports the fact that LGBT characters and relationships are part of Trek (and I'm guessing will be of major interest to current and future LGBT Trek fans), so that's cool. And I'm assuming this pairing is from "MU: Shards and Shadows: A Terrible Beauty" by Jim Johnson. [if I'm wrong please correct me]

    ^ This is the first time I've used the 'Multi Quote' tool. I got it right on the first try. In the past I always opened up one window and copied the entries over. This is much easier! :)
     
  3. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 1999
    Location:
    New York City
    ^ Yes, the Keiko/Tasha scene is from "A Terrible Beauty."
     
  4. ToddCam

    ToddCam Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2003
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA, USA
    Sean Hawk also appeared in various parts of the Slings and Arrows ebook series. Off the top of my head, I specifically remember him appearing in A Sea of Troubles (he's on the "cover"), The Oppressor's Wrong, and Enterprises of Great Pitch and Moment. In fact, in ASOT, a "female" character comes on to him, and he says he is gay. He actually uses the term "gay," and that may be the first/only time it is used in Trek Lit. At least that I can recall. At least, it's the only time in the future. I may not have noticed if it was a scene in 20th/21st century stuff.
     
  5. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 1999
    Location:
    New York City
    ^ Hawk is also in The Insolence of Office. He doesn't appear in either That Sleep of Death or A Weary Life.
     
  6. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    I don't recall seeing "gay" used in any Trek novels before, and since I am gay that's something that would have caught my attention, but I do have a pretty big stack of recent ST books I'm reading, so I haven't read everything.
    I did notice when reading the last couple of Enterprise novels that in The Good That Men Do ( excellent book btw) that Bert Tucker, Trip's brother, has a husband Miguel, which was the first time I can recall ST novels acknowledging same sex marriage. I recall several times when a gay character had a "partner", but no mention of same sex marriage. That was a really nice move, and a very realistic one. I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be same sex marriage by the 22nd century by the time the Federation came around, what with the Federations' diverstiy. It would be hard to get worked up over same sex marraige when you've got four gendered Andorians and other various alien sexualities around.
     
  7. Andy Mangels

    Andy Mangels Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Location:
    portland, or, usa
    borgboy, that was a very conscious move. It was discussed when dealing with Hawk and Keru in Section 31: Rogue, but decided that at that time, having them be acknowledged as "husbands" was perhaps a bit too far ahead of the curve (for humans, of our time).

    In TGTMD, it wasn't a question in any sense. In Forged in Fire, we find that Klingons have gay marriages as well.
     
  8. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Hey Andy! Having enjoyed your novels I feel a little starstruck to get a reply from you :)
    I've loved reading your ENT novels recently. Forged in Fire is a few novels down from the top of my reading stack right now (I'm reading more or less the last couples of years worth of ST novels in more or less chronilogical order, so I'm reading a few other TOS era novels first) but I'm really really looking forward to it.
    I did love the gay Klingons in the Romulan War novel. It makes sense to me that Klingons would have no issues with homosexuality. Our own issues come primarily from religious objections and we know how Klingons feel about the gods :)
    Any word on upcoming ST novels? I see that Martin is listed as the sole author of the next ENT novel so I've wondered what you were up to. Another Sulu novel perhaps?
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    No, in The Buried Age there was a lesbian married couple with a shared last name and a 2-year-old son. Given how many objections there have been in some circles to gay male characters in Trek lit, but no complaints about lesbian characters, I wanted to test the double standard by including a lesbian couple with all the hot-button issues thrown in -- not only being married but raising a son as well. And wouldn't you know it, there wasn't a single peep of protest.

    EDIT: Never mind, I just checked the publication dates and TGTMD came out four months earlier than TBA.
     
  10. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Hi Chris!
    I haven't read the Buried Age yet, it's also in my waiting to be read stack. I loved ExMachina though so I'm looking forward to it. I'd love to see you do another TOS movie era novel. It is great to have so much gay inclusion in Trek lit.
    I'm all for lesbian inclusion, but yeah, folks get way less worked up over gay women. People are pretty upset ( but overall reasonable) at the STXII board on a thread suggesting that nuKirk could be bi. I'm sure there would be much less upset over Uhura being bi.
     
  11. Stevil2001

    Stevil2001 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2001
    Location:
    2010
    When was the fact that Margaret Sinclair-Alexander married a woman revealed? It might predate both The Buried Age and The Good That Men Do, if it was in one of the earlier Crucible installments.
     
  12. Annorax

    Annorax Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Crucible: Kirk.
     
  13. neogothboy74

    neogothboy74 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, United States
    ^^ Thanks guys! I knew Hawk appeared in some of these stories but I had no idea which ones as I've not read it. I was hoping for a dead tree version. But I've made a note of these appearances now. Thank you very much! :)

    Yeah. That jumped out at me too, and is listed. :techman: Do you remember off hand where else you've read about gay Trek characters? Maybe you have some titles that I don't ;) Thank you for contributing to the thread borgboy!

    Also, your avatar of Hugh the Borg reminded me that I thought Hugh was cute when I was younger. lol. Jonathan Del Arco (the actor who portrayed Hugh) went on to play a transgendered woman on Nip/Tuck. And he has a recurring role on 'The Closer'.

    Another book that I've read (LOVED IT), but I have no memory of the gay Klingons. Can you name them? Or give me a page #? :bolian:

    Apparently there are gay Klingons everywhere these days. Nice.

    I know exactly how you feel. A few years ago I was in the middle of this ugly argument about LGBT character in Trek (on a Yahoo Trek Books Forum), and there was this guy who just said the most horrible things about it, and about me. And Several Trek others jumped into the fray, and some even sent me private messages of support. It was very moving. That experience has been in the back of my mind for years...and I've seen several other LGBT centered freak outs by supposed Trek fans since then, and that's one of the reasons why I'm working on this project. So that when people say that it's not a Star Trek thing, LGBT fans & allies can direct them to the site where all the LGBT themed Trek info is available in one place. :)


    I read it last year, I think, and it was one of the best experiences I had with Trek fiction that year (and I read a lot). It's one of my favorite Treks. It ties nicely into a lot of things I enjoyed, and was a real pleasure to read. I highly recommend it. :)

    I'd never thought of it that way. Good point. Of course one of the things that I loved about DS9, was that in the episode "Rejoined" Kira (the most overtly religious character on the series) is the first to admit confusion over why Dax & Khan don't pick up where they left off, despite them both being females at this juncture in time. The situation was muted by a lot of things, but the reactions of characters like Kira and Sisko made the episode work for me.

    I've still not read "Kobayashi Maru", but I own it, and I'm definitely planning on reading it. I was thinking about rereading TGTMD and then reading KM right before The Romulan War comes out. Have a little Enterprise fest. :)

    I've wondered that myself.

    Is this Stefcia and Jameela Janosz? That's one of the Treks I've not yet read, but someone gave me those names for that book. I do own the book, as I intend to read it, but I wanted to read the rest of the Stargazer books (as the opening of yours deals with some of that - I peaked)....but I might skip them. I haven't decided yet.[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=3][/SIZE]
    Agreed. I didn't even realize there was as much as there is. And If I'd not asked for help here I might have never known - and I'm betting that's the case for a lot of Trek fans. I imagine there are a lot of LGBT Trek readers who've just not read the inclusive ones and still more that aren't interested in the books - but might be if they knew they were represented.

    Yeah. I'm happy to aee any LGBT representation in any outlet. My roomie (and ex-bf) feels like it's a cop-out if it's a lesbian / bi woman storyline because he feels like that's more accepted. But I bet it's a big plus for lesbian / bi women fans - if it's handled as more than a sweeps week experimentation thing. And I'm happy with all of it. I actually have an LGBT inclusive movie collection of like 800 some titles. The guidlines for the collection was simply that the movie had to acknowledge our existance in some way. It didn't have to be positive or negative. It just had to not ignore us. And that's all I ever really wanted from my Trek; to see myself represented in some way, and not feel like we were something to be ignored. And in the novels, we have certainly arrived.

    I've not seen the new movie yet (seeing it in about 7 hours). I doubt that Kirk would be portrayed as bi, but I also think it's kind of silly to argue over such a thing. I've more to say on the subject, but it might lead to spoilerish talk and I don't know who has or hasn't seen the movie, and I've still not mastered spoiler tags. lol
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
  14. Andy Mangels

    Andy Mangels Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Location:
    portland, or, usa
    Awww shucks, I'm just a reg'lar guy. A little profane, as people who went to Outlantacon in Atlanta last weekend can attest, but that's what happens when you put me in Betty White's role on "Match Game." (For those not there, it was a game show the guests participated in, and soem answers were rather ear-scorching).

    Glad you liked the books though.

    I'm not working on any Trek yet, but we'll see what happens in the future. I've queried all five of the IDW Star Trek editors over the last four years, and hope to one day be back in the book fold. Until then, I AM working on a comic project called William Shatner's Chimera, for BlueWater, so it's Trek-related...
     
  15. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    I thought Hugh was cute too, which is part of why I picked him as my avatar. That and the Borg at their best are awesome villains.
    I've been following this thread pretty closely, and I can't think of any gay Trek characters that haven't already been mentioned.
    Has anybody mentioned gay characters in Trek fan films? I only just watched ST New Voyages Blood and Fire pt 1 last night, where Kirk's nephew Peter is an ensign on the Enterprise and has a serious ( and seriously cute) bf. I'd be all for carrying over that version of Peter Kirk into the books.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    The Stargazer novels take place 22 years before the opening of The Buried Age, so there's very little overlap. You don't need to be familiar with the SGZ books to follow TBA.

    And yes, those are the Janoszes I was referring to.
     
  17. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
     
  18. Steve Roby

    Steve Roby Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON Canada
    FYI...

    Gender and Sexuality in Star Trek: Allegories of Desire in the Television Series and Films by David Greven, published by McFarland, due fall/winter 2009.

    From the publisher's website:
    Studying the Star Trek myth from the original 1960s series to the 2009 franchise-reboot film, this book challenges frequent accusations that the Star Trek saga refuses to represent queer sexuality. Arguing that Star Trek speaks to queer audiences through subtle yet distinctive allegorical narratives, the analysis pays close attention to representations of gender, race, and sexuality to develop an understanding of the franchise's queer sensibility. Topics include the 1960s original's deconstruction of the male gaze and the traditional assumptions of male visual mastery; constructions of femininity in Star Trek: Voyager, particularly in the relationship between Captain Janeway and Seven of Nine; and the ways in which Star Trek: Enterprise's adoption of neoconservative politics may have led to its commercial and aesthetic failure.
    I don't know if the author is aware of the novels, but it sounds like an interesting book.
     
  19. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

    Enterprise adopted neocon politics?
     
  20. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Christopher's comments upthread on "The Buried Age" reminds me: the Manraloth were all bisexual, weren't they? That is, they saw intercourse as a means to encourage unity and mutual co-operation rather than reproduction, and made no distinction on the basis of biological sex.