Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by LancerKind, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    Finest hour eh? :rofl:

    I always found the characters in DS9/VOY and later TNG cringeworthy, sort of the characterisation and acting panache found in a eary 90's straight-to-video movie.

    This made Trek unpaletable to millions of others who refused to go see Berman era trek, as the characters were totally charmless and unengaging.

    The most successfull TNG era/Post roddenberry movie I believe was First contact, where a bunch of pale actors in rubber suits walk around like they had a carrot stuck up their behind and not say a word upstaged the main cast.

    Just sums up the characterisation of post-Roddenberry Trek.
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just love when people state their opinions as if they're fact and find it acceptable to mock people who don't share their opinions as if it somehow is a fault for not thinking what they do. But yeah when the substantive argument includes phrases like "carrot stuck up their behind" well what can you expect? :p

    Oh and spell check is your friend. :)
     
  3. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

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    Amen. I keep vowing I won't get sucked into this same old debate again, but then somebody plays the "all real Trekkies hate the reboot" card again and my hackles ride.

    Just the other day, I was contacted by a reporter who wanted to gin up controversy by pitting old-school Trekkies against the new movie . . . and who seemed genuinely surprised and frustrated when I refused to play along! (At one point, he actually asked me to recommend a Trek author who would be willing to state that the new movies weren't "real" Trek, but I declined to cooperate.)

    And, as usual, he seemed to have bought into the myth that TOS was a "non-violent" series that never stooped to cheap thrills or action. I admit my jaw dropped to hear this from a professional journalist whom you'd think would have actually done a little research on the original series.

    Jesus Christ, I pointed out, barely an episode went by that Kirk didn't get into fistfight, Federation colonies and outposts were wiped out on a regular basis, and all those redshirts didn't exactly die of natural causes. "Non-violent" indeed!

    Where do people get this stuff?
     
  4. The Transformed Man

    The Transformed Man Commander Red Shirt

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    Which Roddenberry are you referring to? The Roddenberry of TOS days? Or are you wanting the Gene from the early days of TNG's development? The Roddenberry who had basically lost most of his faculties and burned practically every bridge with TOS staff he had brought on board to shepherd the new show. The same gene who was pitching overly sexualized ideas like Betazoids having four breasts and the Ferengi being extremely well endowed in their nether regions (that would have been fun to see on syndicated TV).

    More Sex Trek baby!
     
  5. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    So long as you have engaging characters and stories, the actual look isn't as important.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh you -know- Quark would've bragged about that. ;)
     
  7. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    From faulty memories and also from their bums.
     
  8. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not sure the latter is that great for the franchise. Maybe in the 60s and 80s it was relevant, but these days, I don't know. We should also distinguish between the Trek movies, which have almost always been more action-oriented, and the series, which can afford to expand on more complex themes.
     
  9. Tracer Bullet

    Tracer Bullet Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Of course it's relevant. It's one of the key things that makes Trek different from so much other science fiction and space opera--the idea that the future will be better that the present, that technology is not something scary but can be friendly and free humanity from the drudgery of working just to survive. If that goes away, then I don't really know what makes Trek anything special at all.
     
  10. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry. I meant relevant as in "appealing to people today". The studios don't seem to think so, but as long as we're stuck with movies it's hard to tell.
     
  11. wissaboo

    wissaboo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't know, the cities and civilians looked pretty Utopian to me.
     
  12. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The faulty memories come from so easily forgetting the supposedly exciting action scenes.

    Misusing "violent" as a synonym for "aggressive," particularly in relation to modern idealizations of aggression as heroic, would be the part grabbed from the ass.

    What has never seemed to be legit is the implication that the Kirk the womanizer and the scifi action is what made people watch Star Trek in syndication. Really?
     
  13. mlk

    mlk Ensign Red Shirt

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    Roddenberrys star trek isn't applicable to today, he created a sci fi show in the 60s and you could say the 80s, it's 2013 today, people have matured, they're not as naive. Today's biggest issues aren't USA vs Soviet, it's not interracial problems, it's culture clashes, religious clashes, and according to Roddenberry, earth 2260 is more or less western/christian culture. You can't create a tv show today which still pretends that the biggest issues we have today is if a white guy kisses a black woman, it has to be far more up to date, less cheezy, I mean by god I can barely stand 50% of Voyager's episodes today..
     
  14. Casas9425

    Casas9425 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I can't help but think that Roddenberry was something of a hack. Outside of the first 2 seasons of TOS the rest of his credits are garbage.
     
  15. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I wouldn't go so far as to say he was a hack. He did have the vision to Trek, and I did like some of the episodes/movies he helmed, but I don't think he understood how to appeal to audiences in general.

    Anyway, some good, some bad.
     
  16. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Was this before or after a megavillain started blowing them up, then culminating with a giant megaship crashing into it having to kill thousands at the very least? ;)
     
  17. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not in the least, agreed. Overpraising Roddenberry for the creative work done by many, many people does Trek no favors.
     
  18. Norsehound

    Norsehound Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I recall reading someplace Roddenberry wanted to illustrate a humanist utopian society with Next Generation. That meant no tensions between the characters. Things got pretty boring when the characters weren't allowed to bounce off one another and be flawed in the slightest possible way. Utopia is boring.

    TNG played this down in later seasons and ultimately DS9 put some cracks in the foundation of that perfect utopian society to make it a little more colorful.

    Humans of the future being similar to humans of today is, well, human. If you want a perfect utopian society where everyone is striving for perfection and goodness, look at the Borg. And we all know how exciting they are.
     
  19. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Which was actually true of TOS as well because there really wasn't any tension between the characters there as well. Sure, Spock and McCoy occasionally got into disagreements and traded barbs with one another, but it wasn't like they hated one another.

    The only real difference with the TNG characters was that their disagreements were more civil and didn't resort to name-calling.

    But with both TOS and TNG, the main conflicts involved characters who weren't members of the crew (the sometimes referred to "conflict from outside").
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    All evidence is that nine out of ten trekkies like Abrams's Trek movies, about the same percentage that shows up in polls of the general movie going public.