LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by sovereign, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All they had to do was not be such cheap fucks, thinking they could make a major motion picture for $30 mil, when most blockbuster movies start at around $150 mil. When they did it for nuTrek, they made their money back three fold. I wonder why? :roll eyes:

    Too bad that didn't happen :(
     
  2. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    the massive $100 million + budgets really didn't take off until the 2000s. And Star Trek: First Contact did very well on a budget of around $50 million. Nemesis wouldn't have done well whether it had a $30 million or $300 million budget. The problems were with the script and the state of the franchise at that time.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    From everything I've read over the years, Nemesis had a $60 million dollar budget. Of course, most of that probably went to Stewart and Spiner.
     
  4. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    Just to be fair, I'm going to post the opposite view(s) of fans and pro critics that did like Insurrection/Nemesis, mostly from Metacritic:

    Critic Reviews
    -George Powell, San Francisco Examiner

    -Bruce Diones, The New Yorker

    -Peter Stack, San Francisco Chronicle

    -Keith Phipps, A.V. Club

    User Reviews:

    -HenryP1983

    -Chris

    -MarkW

    Star Trek: Insurrection Reviews - Metacritic

    From the site Whatculture!:

    5 Reasons Why Star Trek: Insurrection Isn’t That Bad
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would have preferred some original thoughts, or even a synthesis of the reviews above, to a linkfarm. I already know some critics liked it. Their liking it is irrelevant to my opinion of the film unless they discuss points that I specifically take issue with and persuade me to reconsider.

    TLDR; TLDR.
     
  6. AgentCoop

    AgentCoop Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Many of those blurbs are the very definition of damning with faint praise. Sure, I agree: They're okay movies. I expect more from Trek than merely okay.
     
  7. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Has such a thing ever happened?

    „Oh gee, you are right, now I actually like the film!“
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Probably not to that extent, but I like to think that if someone can point out a flaw in a position I've held that I can be open-minded enough to reconsider said position.
     
  9. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    I've been watching the Blu Rays 'round table' features recently. I do like how panellist Jeff Bond makes a few excellent points about the TNG movies I agree with: that "First Contact" was arguably the only movie which had true crossover audience appeal (even the overtly Star Trek elements and characters were all presented in a broad, easy-to-understand-if-you've-never-seen-the-series way), and that for a lot of people the disappointment with "Nemesis" may not totally come from that movie in itself, but more from the fact that it left TNG in a sour note and a lot of fans kind of think there should have been one more adventure for this crew to sign off their names ala "The Undiscovered Country".

    As part 1 of a potential two-part the end of TNG storyline, NEM might even have been tolerable. But as it is, it leaves far too many strings left hanging for it to truely be 'A Generation's Final Journey'. We never really got the closure on TNG we needed, and NEM was a lousy way for TNG to end.
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    seriously? You've NEVER changed or re-considered an opinion that you held on a work because of a persuasive and well-made argument?


    opinions that don't change as a response to effective arguments aren't opinions so much as dogma.
     
  11. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

  12. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    ^ I guess that he saw and like the movie enough to defend its merits.

    So by that measure, I guess that I can convince you to like this movie by showing you this essay on why it's been wronged?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe, though Sonak clearly said "effective" arguments.
     
  14. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I get liking the film, and defedning its merits as many posters on this board have done time and time again. But shining like a crown jewel in the Star Trek firmament? Come on...
     
  15. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    well, I just sort of skimmed that for now, but it's probably not the best example since I don't think TPM is a terrible movie, merely a mediocre one, so persuading me to go from 2 or 2.5 stars to 3 or 3.5 isn't a heavy lift.

    Moreover though, there are certainly movies that I disliked but have come to see with a new respect(even if I don't come to actually ENJOY them) thanks to some well reasoned arguments. And the opposite is true-after "The Dark Knight" came out and it received almost universal praise, I loved it, but made sure to read critical reviews that touched on things like plot holes.

    The bottom line is that movies are art, not mathematical or scientific truths. Half of the fun of reading stuff on a forum like this is to see if new angles on a movie can get you to re-think your opinion on it.
     
  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well-said!