LAY OFF Insurrection/Nemesis

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by sovereign, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    As someone whose seen the movie you know that simply isn't true. None of us know what became of the "review" done by the Federation Council.

    None of us.
     
  2. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

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    Insurrection is my favorite TNG film.
     
  3. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    The movie is lacking one key scene: Enterprise leaves the patch; Picard is getting emotionally eaten alive by the moral quandary; he contacts the Commander In Chief Of Starfleet or the Federation Council. Three lines, don't even need to see it: Picard comes out of his ready-room, and states that the Federation is aware of the situation, feels that it's a non-issue cause there's to much to gain from the rings to worry about a non indigenous population and they're to leave the region immediately. He orders Enterprise back into the patch and sneaks up on the S'ona and the movie carries on as normal.

    Did the novels ever hint on what happened? Cause it'd be interesting if Picard made his report, Starfleet Command the Federation Council paid it lip service, and then went ahead, transplanted the Baku and stripped the planet--only to have the rings' energy be unusable afterwards.
     
  4. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Problem with that is we did see the film, and it was immediately pointed out to Picard that his idea wouldn't work owing to the fact that it would take a decade of natural exposure to the radiation of the rings to save the Sona, a decade which they did not possess.

    Never directly stated, the Sona were producing the white, but for whom?

    No they didn't, the Federation Council announced a review. When Admiral Ball-breaker asked for a reconsideration of the Council order to relocate the Indians locate in Cardassian territory, the result after three days was "nothing has changed."

    The Indian were allowed to stay only after asking the Cardassians if they could.

    And because the particle ring was itself Federation property, a natural resource that the Sona would need Federation permission to harvest.

    The Federation had the ring planet, the Sona had the harvest technology.

    :)
     
  5. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So, discovering the planet, establishing a permanent outpost on the planet, establishing a colony on the planet, and being able to defend the government of that colony well enough to exile troublemakers from the planet, don't convey any claim to the planet?

    I mean, if the people who've been living on it for centuries and raised generations of their kind there doesn't establish a claim on the planet, then, what does? Surely not the Federation having close-up pictures of it taken from outside the nebula.
     
  6. AgentCoop

    AgentCoop Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    We could go back and forth forever regarding what does and does not constitute a legal claim on the planet, but the thing is that this is NEVER up for debate in the movie. The movie treats the planet as Federation property.
     
  7. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If it is Federation property then there's nothing wrong with the Admiral's plan and Picard is in the wrong for interfering with the safe removal of the colonists.
    I can't believe I said wrong and Picard in the same sentence.
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Picard position seem to be that it was ethically wrong, not that it was legally wrong.

    Picard was obviously enamored with the Baku lifestyle, his desire to preserve it was a big part of what was driving his thoughts and actions.

    Picard never countered the Federation's possession of the planet or the region it occupied, nor did he contend that the particles once collected wouldn't help many billion within the Federation.

    Those facts just didn't enter into his decision making process.

    :)
     
  9. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Data even brings up that the rings radiation could be affecting their judgement along with their bodies...but fuck it, saddle up, lock and load.

    Insurrection isn't the worst movie or even the worst Trek movie around, but it is largely a non-story. The "good guys" are on the wrong side of the argument (needs of the many and all that), the Baku are just assholes, the heroes showing up actually make the situation worse. Not to mention the same story was done much better in Homeward, Progress, and Journey's End.

    Edit: Bad thought, bad thought...

    Insurrection = 24th remake of Omega Glory


    • Kirk = Picard
    • Tracey = Doughetry / Ruafo
    • Omega Healing Factor = Rings
    • Kohms = S'ona
    • Yangs = Baku
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  10. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    I was thinking about this last night. I suppose if we wanted a 'get-out clause' for Picard's actions -- if we really want a get-out clause -- then we might theorize that Starfleet is acting autonomously of the Federation in this case (Starfleet being merely the military arm of the UFP, a sorta-kinda seperate entity). If this is true, then Riker running off to the Federation council to tattle about Dougherty's plan makes some kind of sense, because while certain higher-ups within Starfleet might have knowledge about the secret mission to harvest the planet, and maybe they even fully authorized it, they might still be keeping it a secret from the UFP itself, for fears that members of the council would shut them down.

    The novels take the easy road, and just blames the whole thing on Section 31. :)
     
  11. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Makes me wonder, exactly who did Riker communicate with? I mean who did he call?

    Can a Commander in Starfleet simply call members of the Council directly, and have them simply run to the "phone" to speak to him?

    Or would Riker have to weave his way through the bureaucracy for hours on end for each of the Council Members he wanted to talk to?


    :)
     
  12. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Another episode that does it better than Insurrection: Ensigns of Command


    Secretary: Councilman, I have a urgent call for you.
    Councilman: From?
    Secretary: Commander Riker aboard...
    Councilman: ...the Enterprise, I know. *sigh* At least it isn't Picard or that damn pet android of his. What's Riker whining about this week?
    Secretary: He says there some primitive people on some backwater planet that Starfleet want to move to another backwater planet.
    Councilman: Really? This shit again? What is that like the 10th or 12th time this year? Tell him I'm not in. In fact, change my com-code.

    Edit: A year or so old, but basically a video version of this thread: Linkara and Nostalgia Critic tackle Star Trek Insurrection
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That would assume Dougerty is still lying and his orders didn't come from, as he claimed, the council.
     
  14. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    The fact that Doughtery wasn't worried about Picard filing a report/objection leads me to believe that he had an official sanction from the Council.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    This.

    Plus, I hate Section 31. It has become the bogey man for every Federation action that doesn't line up with its supposed values.
     
  16. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    ^ I agree Bill, Section 31 have definitely become a bit of an easy crutch for writers wanting to do 'conspriacy theory' plots in the expanded universe.
     
  17. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination

    :lol:

    also, yeah that review is great.

    I say it again and again in these threads: I don't know how the movie got to the filming stage without someone pointing out the huge flaws in the premise.
     
  18. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Well, that's the most bizarre thing of all: it didn't. According to various sources, there is documented evidence of a studio exec who wrote extensive notes detailing all of these plot holes in the story, which was issued before a single frame of the movie was shot. For whatever reason, Piller and Berman neglected to ammend their script (maybe it was too late for a top-down rewrite?).
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    They had a release date before Piller was ever hired to write the movie. There likely wasn't time for any more rewrites.
     
  20. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just randomly noticed that in Deep Space Nine, the other changeling LAAS gets sent to a planet called Kolaris III, which is the same planet on which they find B4's body parts in Nemesis.
     

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