Latinum is better tha gold because...

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Lt. Cheka Wey, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    Was it ever explained what happened to gold?

    Alchemists finally succeded creating it so it's value went drastically down?

    We ran out of it?
     
  2. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You can produce literal mountains of gold with a replicator. Latinum can't be replicated, so it has actual intrinsic value, as opposed to gold which has become by the 24th century, quite literally worthless.
     
  3. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Commodore Commodore

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    I think that the DS9 episode when Morn had dissappeared (presumed dead). Quark explained that gold's only value was in jewelry. It had lost it's value as a trading medium because it could be replicated.
     
  4. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's gold pressed latinum. So, gold is still involved.
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Nobody ever says such a thing in Trek, though.

    For all we know, latinum is just as easy to replicate as any other material. But it's processed, "pressed", just like paper is printed into bills. Bills have value because they are pressed with coded information that gives them value: thanks to their serial numbers, they serve as abstract promises of value.

    Perhaps gold-pressed latinum is the most convenient medium for printing physical or chemical codes in the Ferengi world, just like a certain type of durable paper is in ours. Gold or latinum alone is merely pretty, and mainly useful for brooches and the like.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I believe it is mentioned twice, in one of the episode when the Dominion took n over the station and the one when Morn went missing. I think the latinum was unable to be replicated. The role of gold isn't clear, but it might have something to do with latinum being liquid.
     
  7. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    It was never stated that latinum couldn't be replicated. Anyone "remembering" it being said is suffering from a false memory, probably caused by others repeating the falsehood so many times.
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Latinum's worth over gold is simply a matter of dramatic irony. The alien species obsessed with money and greed thinks gold is worthless. That's all it really is.
     
  9. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    In "Little Green Men" Quark said that gold was an acceptable trading medium, in the absence of latinum, dilithium, etc. It obviously still holds some value, just not quite so much as it does today on Earth.

    And don't give me that "no replicators in the past" bit. They had to have a replicator on their ship, and both Nog and Rom would know how to get another one working. They had a history book, so they would know about the Vulcans, at least indirectly (and we know the Vulcans were around at that time, and could sniff out warp trails), and they, if no one else, could reverse-engineer one with the Ferengi's help.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    As Jake and Nog proved in their little barter scheme, value can be found in anything and everything; you just have to know your customers. The less you know about them, the more universal a trading medium you need. And more universal probably means more abstract.

    If there were replicators in the past, Quark obviously would do his utmost to prevent his clients from gaining access to them. Gold is valuable to stupid Earthlings, and no doubt to a broad range of other undeveloped species, as we learn in VOY how uncommon replicator technology really is in this galaxy.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It could indeed be just a case that latinum is a trading medium that the majority of starfaring races in this part of the Galaxy mutually consider valuable. In other parts of the Galaxy, latinum may be totally worthless because the civilizations there have agreed upon something else.
     
  12. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You want my advice? Buy latinum! Buy buy BUY! The price of latinum has steadily gone up for the last twenty years and it will keep going up. Historically latinum has always been a good investment and now it's hit an all time high. With the socialist Federation taking over every industry, we're about to hit a stock market crash the likes of which history has never seen. But when stocks tank, latinum rises. So buy latinum, buy, BUY, BUY!!!
     
  13. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, in the episode Quark talks about giving warp drive to 20th century Ferengi, saying "The Ferengi will have warp drive technology centuries before hewmons or Klingons or even the Vulcans."

    Now, yes we see on Enterprise that a decade later Vulcans do have a warp capable space service (as do the Tellarites) so obviously it's not centuries before everyone develops warp drive, but Quark, Rom and Nog do seem ignorant of when Vulcans got warp drive in the episode anyway.
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    According to Tom Paris, gold is going to be valued at over 5,600 dollars a troy ounce by the late twenty second century. Think of your descendants, buy gold.

    :)
     
  15. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    Except Quark was going to take gold from the Hew-mons, in exchange for valuable technology. If gold were otherwise useless, because replicators, then he could only use it on Earth and other such primitive planets with similar value systems. And what could he get from them that he couldn't get on his own ship, or from the fewer more advanced races running around in the 1940's? Obviously gold has some value to Quark.

    Of course, I seriously doubt replicators can just create gold/latinum/whatever out of thin air/pure energy, so that point is moot.
     
  16. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Everything has some value, even to Quark. Air has value to Quark. Just because gold is not the most precious material in the 24th century, doesn't mean that it is worthless - it's just worth less.

    Hell, aluminum used to be more expensive than gold; the Washington Monument has an aluminum capstone because that was a precious metal at the time, which just shows you how things can change.
     
  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Quark sees the value of gold as being in trading with more primitive cultures, as stated in Who Mourns For Morn.

    It doesn't make sense for latinum to be valuable if it can be replicated. Or else, "Computer, 5000 bricks latinum" oh now I'm rich. Who Mourns For Morn also refutes the 'Latinum bars are imprinted with serial information' theory as Morn was able to store it in his stomach in liquid form.
     
  18. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Latinum has value because everyone agrees to pretend it has value. It's the same idea behind modern currency. Do you think the pieces of paper with numbers printed on them that we use as currency are inherently valuable? No - it's just a representation of one way to track value. The currency in your pocket doesn't even represent the sum total of all "money" in circulation. Most money exists only as data in computers. And every kind of currency can be counterfeited or hacked. The fact that it can be counterfeited doesn't mean it loses value, it just means it's important to make doing so illegal and/or incredibly difficult. Latinum can be replicated, but doing it may be illegal (and send a red flag to the authorities) or so incredibly difficult to do that it's not worth the effort (except for a few smart, ambitious or stubborn individuals).

    Latinum probably functions the exact same way, and perhaps in a more complex way, too. This is the currency of an interstellar society with access to technologies we lack. The value of latinum may be present as "molecular serial numbers", or something. I don't know. BUT, I do know that assuming a culture as complex as the Ferengi, specialized in financial and business systems, shouldn't be thought of as engaging in mere barter with pieces of ore. On the other hand, they may prefer to be thought of as simplistic barbarians using baubles as currency, to make their opponents (both military and business) underestimate them - and allow them to gain the upper hand!
     
  19. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    They are walking stereotypes also nobody could getrich in Ferenginar if we think about it. Big companies thrive an corporate culture and loyalty. Frengi have none of that, they are just to stabby.
     
  20. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    What? No one is a "walking stereotype", except people who want to be such things. And clearly Ferengi do get rich, so it is obviously possible to climb the socioeconomic ladder in Ferengi society. Aside from their dismissal of their own females, apparently anyone can go from rags to riches on Ferenginar - they seem very egalitarian. They don't seem to worry about who is socially acceptable, or discriminate against people in anyway beyond whether they're rich or poor. They even have rules about "sucking up to the boss", probably to promote loyalty in a culture that would otherwise degrade it. So I don't think you have raised any good points.
     

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