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Discussion in 'Voyager' started by hux, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. hux

    hux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good episode but......

    ....how is it possible for the doctor to have all memories of Jetal removed without there being a massive consequence to the memories of countless other experiences

    for example....lets say the doctor is chatting with Jetal and Paris about a piece of music he likes..........then (after the memories of Jetal are removed) he brings it up again with Paris and Paris is like....yeah, you already told me that doc"....Would Paris really make an effort to keep every conversation he had with the doctor in the presence of Jetal at the front of his mind should such an incident occur.....and everyone else on the ship would be expected to do this too

    Not only must the crew be wary of any conversation they've ever had with the doctor when Jetal was present but also they have to constantly be conscious of not mentioning Jetal whenever the doc is around

    Just seems that removing every single memory related to Jetal would have a serious knock on effect that would create problems.....there's a line where the doc says he hasn't seen Jetal for a while and how are things on deck 11...i think this was intended to show us that the doc and Jetal didn't socialise very often....but even so, it's a bit hard to accept that you can remove an entire person from his memory without it effecting other things

    In fact, we see this almost immediately when Seven tells the doctor that he asked her to meet him in an hour and he has no memory of it.....aside from proving the point that, removing so many of the docs memories involving Jetal would cause problems, it also makes one wonder why Janeway didn't discuss the whole thing with Seven to ensure Seven didn't keep having further conversations with the doctor that he had no memory of (she presumably did this with all the other crew otherwise they'd have to delete his memory every week)

    any other thoughts on this episode
     
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I think the EMH would have some very powerful error-correction software, so all these memories would be rewritten into approximations of what they were, sans any sight or mention of Jetal.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Somebody should have just bitchslapped the Doctor and said "Look, you think you're the first doctor to lose a patient? Suck it up. You want to be treated like a sentient being? Well, shut the fuck up and get on with your job then. "
     
  4. heavy lids

    heavy lids Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If only VOY was on HBO.
     
  5. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not a very good episode, but I think the basic premise makes some sense, even if the 'Erased memory' thing doesn't make any sense at all.

    If I were in a situation where I had two people whose life I could save and I could only pick one, I would probably go with the one I'm closer to also, and I'd feel totally shitty about it afterward. But the Doctor was programmed with the edict never to take a life, and he was put in a situation where life and death was strictly his arbitrary judgment call.

    I totally understand a feedback loop being created between his expanded personality and his base ethical programming.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There were two possibilities:

    - The Doctor acts to save one life, and another dies.

    OR

    - The Doctor waits too long to make a decision, and both die.

    Therefore, logically speaking, anything - ANYTHING - that helps the Doctor make a decision as to whose life to save, must (by definition) be a good thing. Better to have only one person die than two die, right?
     
  7. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tell that to Janeway in "Mosaic". ;)
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Never read it. :shrug:

    Here's another thought: This alien race reproduces by reanimating the bodies of the dead and turning them into living aliens. What happens when there aren't enough bodies? Do these aliens kill people so that they can reanimate them as their own? Think about it.
     
  9. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    agreed. I don't really understand the Doctor's issue here-there were two patients, which as he said, both had an equal chance to live. It was a no-win scenario, there was no reason to feel guilty about it. I suppose he could have flipped a coin though(or an equivalent thing) if he wanted to take his personal "feelings" about it out of the equation.
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Also, it could be argued that Harry Kim - being a bridge officer - was of more value to the crew, and therefore this should also be considered when deciding whom to treat.

    It sounds harsh, yes, but as I said, something had to help the Doctor make a decision.