La-La Land to release 15-disc original series score set

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Harvey, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Elaan battle music cue is awesome, I always loved that particular score. Poor Enterprise getting hammered. :( My other favorite score is Paradise Syndrome, the opening cue is among my favorites.


    -Chris
     
  2. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Neil, I just listened to the podcast at On the Score (http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=10295). I loved hearing you guys all talk about what an emotional thing this was (is) for you. Nice to know it's not just me.
     
  3. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  4. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It would also be great to get the "trek style" music from the animated series next :)

    -Chris
     
  5. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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  6. ACE

    ACE Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Season 2, Disc 4 listing is out:

    SEASON 2, DISC 4

    Metamorphosis
    Music Composed and Conducted by George Duning
    Episode #31, Recorded 6/28/67
    Aired #38, 11/10/67

    1. Shuttlecraft/Shuttle Helpless M11/M12 2:09
    2. The Planetoid/Most Unusual M13/M14 1:15
    3. Cochrane* M15 1:35
    4. Looks Familiar M21 0:50
    5. Companion*/Still Alive M22+M22X/M23 0:42
    6. Zefram/Nancy Flips* M24/M25 1:14
    7. You’ve Got It/Angry Companion* M26/M27–30+M27–30X 1:12
    8. Cochrane Calls M31+M31X 2:14
    9. Spock OK/Judas Goat M32/M33/M33A 2:06
    10. Mad Companion* M34+M34X 1:36
    11. Starship*/Scott Anxious M41 tk 3/M42 0:37
    12. Transition*/Companion Talks/Kirk Frustrated M43/M44/M44A 4:22
    13. Cochrane Angry/Spock Puzzled/Nancy Sobs* M45/M46–50/M51 1:11
    14. Kirk Pleads/New Nancy M52+M52X/M53 3:06
    15. It’s Her/Loveliness M54/M55–60 2:57
    16. You Loved Me M61 1:45
    17. Cochrane’s Decision* M62 1:11

    Total Time: 30:36

    *Contains “Theme From Star Trek (TV Series)” by Alexander Courage and Gene Roddenberry

    Return to Tomorrow
    Music Composed and Conducted by George Duning
    Episode #51, Recorded 12/29/67
    Aired #49, 2/9/68

    18. The Voice* M12 1:07
    19. Who Are You/The Globes* M15/M21 1:20
    20. Sargon Transfers/Sargon Requests M22/M23 2:23
    21. Thalassa/Kirk Returns M24/M31 1:14
    22. Kirk’s Philosophy* M32 0:57
    23. Ready Sargon M33 0:52
    24. Thalassa Recalls M34–40 1:53
    25. Henoch†/I Remember M41/M44 1:13
    26. Thalassa Worried†/Nurse Puzzled†/Thalassa Concerned/Thalassa Pleads M45/M45A/M46/M51 2:33
    27. Sargon Inert† M52 0:56
    28. Nurse Chapel*/Spock Alive M55–60/M63 1:34
    29. Last Moments* M64 1:41

    Total Time: 18:09

    *Contains “Theme From Star Trek (TV Series)” by Alexander Courage and Gene Roddenberry
    †Contains “Blackship Theme” Composed by Fred Steiner

    Patterns of Force
    Music Composed and Conducted by George Duning
    Episode #52, Recorded 12/29/67 (With “Return to Tomorrow”)
    Aired #50, 2/16/68

    30. Military Mite (Nazi March) M10 tk 1 1:41
    31. Military Mite (Nazi March) (soft version) M10 tk 2 1:17
    32. Military Mite (Nazi March) (10 bars, soft opening) M10 tk 3 0:24
    33. Military Mite (Nazi March) (10 bars, hard opening) M10 tk 4 0:26
    34. Military Mite (Nazi March) (6 bars, long ending) M10 tk 5 0:14
    35. Military Mite (Nazi March) (6 bars, short ending) M10 tk 6 0:14
    36. Military Mite (Nazi March) (horn motive) M10 tk 7 0:08
    37. Military Mite (Nazi March) (horn theme) M10 tk 9 0:14
    38. Military Mite (Nazi March) (percussion only) M10 tk 10 1:42

    Total Time: 6:35


    The Apple
    Unused Percussion Tracks
    Composed and Conducted by Gerald Fried
    Episode #38, Recorded 7/10/67 (With “Friday’s Child”)
    Aired #34, 10/13/67

    39. M1 tk 1 1:35
    40. M2 tk 1 0:59
    41. M3 tk 2 0:20
    42. M4 tk 1 1:33
    43. M5 tk 1 1:02
    44. M6 tk 1 0:20

    Total Time: 5:59


    Wolf in the Fold
    Unused Belly Dancer Music
    Composed and Conducted by Gerald Fried
    Episode #36, Recorded 7/19/67 (With “Amok Time”)
    Aired #43, 12/22/67

    45. Navel Maneuvers M1/M1A 3:05

    Total Disc Time: 64:51
     
  7. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Now this is interesting. Unused belly dancer music for Wolf in the Fold (Navel Maneuvers.. love the title).

    And some unused percussion from The Apple? Interesting.

    And George Dunning quoting Fred Steiner. :)
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    All of Disc 4 is unreleased material, unless you count the preview release of "It's Her" on the TrekCore site. And this answers my question about "Patterns of Force." The Nazi march was a new Duning composition after all.

    I'm really looking forward to having "Metamorphosis" and "Return to Tomorrow" at last. Duning did great work, but only his third-season scores have ever had any kind of release. And Duning was an alumnus of the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music (now the University of Cincinnati's College Conservatory of Music), which my father also attended, though not at the same time.

    Intriguing that we now have two unused cues that were replaced with "Vina's Dance" -- the Wilbur Hatch pre-recorded piece that was used on set, and now this Fried cue for Kara's belly dance. I wonder why they didn't use this one. Should be interesting to hear.

    So Disc 5 should be "Tribbles" (our first taste of the underused Jerry Fielding), "I, Mudd" (my least favorite score), the Courage library cues, and whatever other unused or library bits are outstanding.
     
  9. Kamdan

    Kamdan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    They'd have to have the tapes to make a 5.1 audio track, which is where the YouTube video ripped the tracks from.
     
  10. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Isn't this YouTube video the same one that was part of someone's pet project in the TOS forum a few years ago to try and isolate some of the TAS soundtracks? *runs off to research...*
     
  11. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Grinning from ear to ear over this list!!! :)
     
  12. JimZipCode

    JimZipCode Commander Red Shirt

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    Welcome to most fans' favorite disc. Heck, will probably wind up being mine again, after the intoxication of the new music has worn off. Say six months down the road or so.

    I'm surprised this one would be put together, since it so directly competes with the existing GNP Crescendo disc. The first disc with the two pilots I understand, it's inevitable for that one to be made. But this one was not inevitable.

    How does the total run time compare with the old one? (Don't have my copy with me here)
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I meant to remark before that this strikes me as odd:
    What's called "Blackship Theme" here and in "Mirror, Mirror" is the same melody that was called "Romulan Theme" in "Balance of Terror." So shouldn't this say "Contains 'Romulan Theme' Composed by Fred Steiner" instead, since that's the original source of the melody?


    See my post right after the one you quoted -- I list the cues that were not included on the GNP release, as well as covering the numerous typos on that album's track list. This version is both substantially more complete and more accurate than the previous one.

    And somewhere in this thread, there's a link to a podcast interview with the box set's producers, and they explain how they came to an understanding with GNP about the set, convincing them how important it was that it be complete. Apparently this is a joint release between La-La Land and GNP, which I assume means that GNP gets a cut of the profits.
     
  14. JimZipCode

    JimZipCode Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, I had read that. I was just looking for a bottom-line on how many more minutes of run-time it all added up to. I'll take a look at my GNP disc when I get home.


    Steiner himself quoted his "Romulan Theme" when he wrote "Black Ship Theme", but he doesn't need to attribute it since it's his own work. What work Duning cites, I guess depends on which work Duning is quoting. He seems to think he's quoting "Black Ship Theme", so I don't see why that doesn't answer the question. My assumption here is that the note shown ("contains theme by Steiner") was not something added by the producers of the collection, but instead was actually taken from the original manuscripts of the music. We know the guys who worked on the collection referenced the actual manuscripts
    (how fucking cool is that, by the way!?!?!)
    and used the info to correct cue titles etc. It makes sense that they would take this other info from the 'script. Note that the track listing for Mirror Mirror does not say "contains Romulan Theme from" etc. The "Mace Fight" track on the Catspaw listing (#15) does not say that it contains a theme from the Amok Time score, though to our ears it clearly does (from the TrekCore track previews). But the flybys that use Courage's Enterprise theme do contain that note.

    The composers re-purpose their own material freely, but scrupulously note where they interpolate a colleague's work. Makes total sense.

    It makes sense to me that Duning would quote from the same season's music, given a choice; that also may have avoided possible issues around using music written for a prior season. It also seems probable that, if producers showed him scores as reference, the scores from that same season would be closest to hand. Could it be that Duning never heard the season 1 music, so did not know that the melody had a longer "pedigree"? If he did know, he may have chosen to reference Steiner's most recent, presumably most fully-worked-out version of the music, rather than an earlier version.

    There are differences btw "Romulan Theme" and "Black Ship Theme", at least in terms of the development. So maybe Duning really is quoting one over the other.

    Y'know what is interesting is, Duning quotes the Amok Time score a couple times in s3. In the Truth No Beauty score, he uses a Vulcan theme in the bookend transporter room scenes, as a motif for Spock. In the Empath, he uses a descending theme from that same score when McCoy hypo's Spock. So first, when we see the track listings, I would expect to see those noted. And second – does that mean Duning knew Fried's score from Amok Time, was a fan of the episode even, and made it a point to reference that music?? Or does it just mean that some producer told him there was a Vulcan theme available to re-use?

    Yeah, I listened to that quite greedily this afternoon. Wonderful, informative. I loved the notes about the people who contacted Bond, independently, to provide previously-unknown info, like the interviews from the Library of Congress project.

    The La-la land people have been very specific from the get-go, about the level of cooperation from all the relevant companies, including GNP. I guess what I am specifically wondering, is if those two scores were paired on one CD with the idea that, sometime in the future, it might be issued as a stand-alone release. Either by La-la or by GNP. It seemed weird otherwise, to pair re-create GNP's disc. They didn't do that with Shore Leave & Naked Time, so why with these two?
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Other way around. "Catspaw" was scored a month before "Amok Time" -- and I'm fairly certain the motif you're talking about was also in the "Friday's Child" score in between them, so "Amok" was actually the third place it was used. I've always thought of it as just a generic motif that Fried kept coming back to in season 2. Steiner had one or two nonspecific motifs he used in multiple episodes too.

    Otherwise, I take your point; I can see why Duning, who did no first-season scores, might've been unaware of the original name of the motif. But in the context of this encyclopedic, meticulous, historically important collection, it just feels it would be more appropriate to attribute the original title of the theme.


    I'm not as familiar with the "Return to Tomorrow" score as some others, but I don't think Duning used more than a few bars of the theme at a time, not enough for the differences in development to come into play.


    Yes, I've been aware of that for a long time. I loved what he did with it in "The Empath." Before, he'd only quoted the first two bars of the melody, but in "Empath" he continued it further (the descending theme you note came right after the motif Duning had previously quoted -- and I believe it was immediately followed in that "Amok Time" cue by the multi-episode Fried motif we were discussing earlier).


    Between that and the "Blackship Theme" for Henoch, I'd say that Duning just saw it as part of his job to review what the other composers were doing and pick out relevant motifs. Perhaps he chose "Blackship" for Henoch because it was associated with an evil/altered Spock, and then picked out a bit of the "Amok Time" theme as a general Spock motif.


    In comparing the new releases to the older ones, I find that some of the old ones have at least some of the episodes arranged in the order the scores were recorded. For instance, The Best of Star Trek Volume 2 has "The Corbomite Maneuver," "Balance of Terror," and "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" in that order, and it turns out those three were recorded together in a single session in that order. "Amok" and "Doomsday" were recorded consecutively, which might be why they were paired on both discs. Or maybe it's just coincidence.
     
  16. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They are paired because isn't this the production order?


    -Chris
     
  17. TV's Frank

    TV's Frank Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not necessarily. With many of the old 70's and 80's animated series making their way to DVD, the existing, original audio mix of music, sound FX and dialogue is used to create the 5.1 audio. Oftentimes the companies releasing these new DVDs do not have the separate sound elements with which to create a brand new audio mix.
     
  18. JimZipCode

    JimZipCode Commander Red Shirt

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    But doesn't that imply an unusual awareness of the contents of those episodes? Unusual for a composer of that time, I mean. I got the impression, I guess primarily from the interviews in Bond's book, that the composers didn't spend a lot of time watching the shows they scored for. Of course they watched the episodes they scored; but in general they didn't have time to watch a season's worth of episodes of a show.

    Duning's choice of those motifs to re-use, seems to display almost a fan's sense of the contents of those episodes, the relevance of those cues. Compare his interpolation of cues, to Fried & Steiner & Courage & Kaplan. All of them used Courage's Enterprise theme for flyby's, which was required. And then – what? Fried & Steiner & Courage quoted themselves, but only themselves so far as I can tell. Kaplan wrote two entirely distinct scores, with no material shared between them (I think).

    Isn't Duning unique among the Star Trek composers, in quoting from the others? (Except for the Enterprise theme.)
     
  19. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Basically, yeah.:bolian:

    I'm glad December 4 is only a week off. I've finally finished saving up for this thing, and plan on ordering it on release day.

    Of course, that still leaves the week or so for the mailman to bring it to me, but what the hell, I've waited this long.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, I'd say that Courage's romantic theme for the Romulan Commander in "The Enterprise Incident" is derived from Steiner's Romulan/Blackship Theme -- one sustained note, then three iterations of a descending pair with the third pair ending on the same note as the first, then a repetition of those three pairs, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the track list for that episode includes a note saying "Based on a theme by Fred Steiner" for that, the same way that Steiner's Enterprise theme is listed as "Based on a theme by Alexander Courage" since it's basically an inversion of the Courage fanfare.

    As for Duning, yes, it's possible he watched the show; his "Return to Tomorrow" score was recorded a couple of months after "Mirror, Mirror" aired, and of course he didn't quote "Amok Time" until season 3. But it's also possible he just talked with his fellow composers about what they'd done, or with the producer or the music editor or whatever. Rather than being fannish, it could've simply been part of his process as a composer to compare notes in that way. It's unwise to read fan sentiment into professional work. I'm a Trek fan, of course, but when I write a Trek novel and incorporate ideas from other novels, I don't think of it as an expression of fandom, but as being thorough in my research -- or as saving myself work when I can find an existing idea I can use rather than having to come up with a new one. ;) For all we know, Duning could've simply been so pressed for time that it was easier to ask if there were existing themes that would suit his purposes.