Kruge, and Genesis

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Deck 1 - Bridge, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. Deck 1 - Bridge

    Deck 1 - Bridge Lieutenant Junior Grade

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    I saw a clip from TSFS this morning and something occured to me that I thought I'd share, I'm sure others have noticed it too.

    Kruge beams down to Genesis and, at gunpoint, tells everyone except Kirk to move away from the immediate area. Why did the others leave Spock at that point? Kruge was clear, 'everyone except Kirk' was to move away for beam-out. Why go all that way, with all that danger, to leave the person they came for when there was nothing forbidding them moving him?

    Arrggghhh!!! Plot devices!!!!!
     
  2. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    The didn't go to the planet for a person, they went for the secret of Genesis. Kruge separated the others so he could beam them up to his ship. And as far as Kruge was concerned, Spock was just some guy near death. Worthless to him. The others couldn't get to him because Kruge would shoot them, or worse, shoot Spock. Meanwhile, Kruge would have it out with Kirk. That way he'd be remembered as the badass dude who got the Genesis secret AND killed Kirk. Kruge thought he had what he wanted with Saavik, after all.
     
  3. Deck 1 - Bridge

    Deck 1 - Bridge Lieutenant Junior Grade

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    I'm talking about the Enterprise crew, as per my post, not Kruge. He told everyone, except Kirk, to move away. My question is, that being the case, why did the Enterprise crew who were told to move away leave Spock on the floor when they could have taken him?

    I think you've got the wrong of the stick my friend.
     
  4. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    It was the crucial day when Leonard Nimoy got to decide if he was done being Spock or not. Had the crew taken Spock off Genesis at that particular point, the character could have been played by Joe W Davis for several more movies!
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that was never going to happen.
     
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored BRexiting the Briefing Room Moderator

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    Maybe they were concerned about moving Spock with all the rapid changes his body had gone through.
     
  7. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
    they needed Spock to age a little more to the point where he looked like Leonard Nimoy.
     
  8. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was an important plot complication.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Probably because Krudge would've shot them if they delayed. The guy had already demonstrated that he was pretty trigger happy.
     
  10. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    I think this is the right answer.

    I see it like this.

    Enterprise crew: "Spock we found you, we traveled far and broke the rules and fought Klingons to find you!"
    Kruge beams down: "Get over there or else!"
    Enterprise crew: "See ya Spock, gotta go!"

    :guffaw:

    I think a pissed off, trigger happy Klingon trumps all niceties in any circumstances.
     
  11. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    No, because the final transformation happens after the missed opportunity to beam him up with the others.
     
  12. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

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    They're saying that's the reason they left him behind, Therin.
     
  13. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    So was I. The line can be read to mean the opposite, it seems.
     
  14. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Kruge was being a sadist. He knew of Kirk and Spock's close friendship, and wanted to make sure they died--he wanted Kirk to see Spock die a second time--that was my take.
     
  15. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    That is a possibility, but wouldn't it require Kruge knowing who his young Vulcan prisoner was?
     
  16. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, Krudge's "because you desire it" was about as sadist as he could get, not knowing Kirk's relationship with Spock.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or simply pragmatic. Kruge still wanted Kirk to hand over the secret of Genesis (that was the only reason he beamed down in the first place), so he needed a means to blackmail him. The simplest way was to threaten Kirk's life with the very handily available dying planet, but Kirk would resist - so the second-simplest way was to threaten the life of somebody Kirk showed particular concern for.

    None of this answers the original question of why the rest of the heroes didn't drag Spock with them "over there" when Kruge told them to move. But at that point, said heroes wouldn't have known that Kruge wanted them in that particular spot for beam-up. For all they knew, Kruge wanted them there for a mass execution - in which case leaving Spock behind would be doing a favor to the Vulcan.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. Tribble puncher

    Tribble puncher Captain Captain

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    I like this explanation, in the craziness of the moment, scotty, sulu, etc. didn't think they were going to be beamed away. either shot or they knew they had to play along and possibly try to jump Kruge while he was gloating or interrogating Kirk. either way they knew the safest place for Spock was on the ground, I think if they had known they were going to be beamed up, they would have grabbed Spock. I'm surprised that Matlz? wasn't overpowered Immediately after they beamed up. Sulu could have Flipped him easy...
     
  19. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kruge told Maltz he was beaming up prisoners. There's plenty of time to Maltz to hit the beam up switch and draw his gun before the others solidify. 5 against 1 doesn't count for much when the 1 is pointing a gun at your head and he's fine with blowing it off.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nevertheless, the Maltz end of things features some oddities. When Kirk beams up, he does so by calling Maltz - but he ends up materializing in a transporter room that is either uncrewed, or crewed by somebody else whom Kirk overpowers or kills off screen. Kirk then walks to the bridge, dragging Spock, and finds Maltz and the prisoners there.

    Clearly, Maltz didn't beam up the prisoners to the transporter room on "remote", by pressing a button at the bridge, and then politely ask them over the PA system to walk to the bridge where he was waiting. He must have beamed up the prisoners to the location where he himself was waiting with a drawn disruptor. So, what's going on? Why would he "remotely" beam prisoners to the bridge but his own commander (in reality Kirk and Spock) to the empty transporter room?

    I guess we have to assume Maltz beamed up the prisoners to the transporter room by using a console in the transporter room, then walked them at gunpoint to the bridge where he would prepare the ship for departure in case the planet blew up - and then remotely recovered his commander (that is, Kirk and Spock) because he could trust him (although not them!) with arrival at an unoccupied transporter room.

    The other technically possible situation, the one where Klingons already know how to do direct site-to-site and Maltz beamed up the prisoners directly to the bridge, makes zero sense, as he would then have beamed Kruge from the planet directly to his command chair as well.

    But why have the prisoners on the bridge at all? Wouldn't the ship have a lockable room or three for the purpose of holding captives? Were all locks aboard the ship rendered unreliable by Kirk's earlier bombardment? Or did Maltz think the planet would blow up so soon that he had no time for a round of locking-up?

    Timo Saloniemi