Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by DavidLeeRoth, May 17, 2013.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Different day, different producers. I still don't see why this version of the character is a big deal. All I care about is if the actor has the ability to pull it off.

    Cumberbatch did.
     
  2. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exactly. If it's the 1960s and you need someone to play Khan, you run up against the fact that there are no prominent actors of the right ethnicity. So you cast Ricardo Montalban and you slap some makeup on him. I gather that kind of thing happened somewhat often in the mid-20th century. But nowadays you have different options. I like B.C. as much as the next guy, but he's not the only actor with gravitas out there.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    And if Khan Noonien Singh was a real historical person, I would tend to agree that ethnicity of the actor playing him matters.

    Since Khan is fictional, I'm not concerned.
     
  4. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But you would have had a problem with, say, a black guy playing Abraham Lincoln?

    Good to know.
     
  5. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You're right. In TOS, he was Mexican.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Of course I would, Lincoln was white. I'd have a problem with a white actor playing Martin Luther King. Skin color was part of who they were, it played a part in defining their place in history and what they were able to accomplish. Lincoln simply couldn't have been president of the U.S. in the 1860's if he were black.

    But there's no reason a fictional character, Jim Kirk for example, can't be black or Asian or from the Middle East. Same goes for Superman or Batman.
     
  7. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    'From Director Quiten Tarantino comes "Samuel L. Jackson in... Honest Abe!"'
     
  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But Jim Kirk in this continuity is white. Nero's time travel didn't change him into a black baby.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    But if there's a black actor out there who was the best person for the job, he shouldn't be denied it because of details in a fictional universe.
     
  10. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, he should.

    Because, in this fictional universe, Kirk is white.

    Therefore, by definition, a black actor is not the best person for the job.
     
  11. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No.

    The most that kind of thing tells you is something about someone's legal parentage, not their heredity.

    I swear I think trekkies are more prone to ethnic and racial stereotypes in their fictional universe than most people are in this day and age; it's a consequence both of a need to have every detail in continuity pinned down like dead butterflies and the writers' tendency to paint entire "alien species" with a broad brush: Klingons are honor-bound brutes, Ferengi are greedy, Cardassians are cruel. If someone's half human half Klingon, they have to struggle with "violent tendencies" and so forth. When a character doesn't fit his or her racial mold, they're treated as exceptional. You can, in essence, judge characters based on how they look; it's one of Trek's least admirable qualities.

    And Starbuck is a man.

    Until she's not.

    Yes, a non-white actor could be the best casting for Kirk - Iowans come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Nothing about Kirk's personal traits or history - or name - define him as white or even likely white. Could Uhura, supposedly African, be caucasian? I suppose so as well, but the question of likelihood does at least enter into that.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    By that standard, Chris Pine is the wrong man for the job because he has blue eyes and everyone knows Jim Kirk has brown eyes.
     
  13. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Now you're talking.
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    There are days that I wish CBS would pull all the licenses and then take and grind all the episodes and films to dust.

    Some folks are just beyond ridiculous in how seriously they treat this stuff.
     
  15. Set Harth

    Set Harth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's the beauty of an actual "clean break" reboot which doesn't claim to have any connection to the prior continuity.

    Like, you can change Perry White to a black guy if you're starting over with a Superman reboot.

    STXI, on the other hand, wasn't a reboot. Some people not employed by the franchise just tend to insist that it was.

    Kirk stayed white.

    Uhura stayed black.

    Chekov stayed Russian.

    Sulu stayed Asian.

    Everyone stayed the same sex they started as.

    Et cetera.
     
  16. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sisko's time travel would have. Kirk's mom was hot!
     
  17. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^
    I'm not about to argue with that! Winona was pretty sweet.
     
  18. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    Anybody else thinks the Abrams klingons are the best of both worlds.?They look shady like the ones in TOS and tough like the one in TNG.
     
  19. Cyrus

    Cyrus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A debate between Crazy Eddie and Cool Eddie, could only happen on trekbbs.;)

    And the Klingons looked fine to me.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And Khan stayed European.

    I'm reminded of my uncle, who has a Chinese last name because his father was Chinese. This name has been passed down to his son and grandsons, who are less and less Chinese. They will more than likely pass this name to their sons as well. One could speculate/rationalize (Trekkie specialties) that Khan has remote Indian ancestry but is also European.

    I'm curious how far this "spot on casting" should go. Kirk is a Scots-American. Shatner is Jewish-Canadian. Should they have passed him over in favor of Scots-American? Or perhaps Kirk is Jewish and Pine is wrong for the part. Spock's human ancestry appears to be British. (Mother is a Grayson, ancestors are Doyles or Holmes) Are the Jewish-Russian Nimoy and Italian-Irish Quinto therefore wrong for the part? Then we have an New Zealander of German ancestry play the Scots-American McCoy!!!!
     

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