Klingon Neutral Zone

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Andres, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    You're right. I had misremembered that. Still, the presence of the Klingon ships still confuses the issue. In context, it's hard to read it as anything other than the Klingon Neutral Zone. Although the Klingons catch the Enterprise off guard, there's no indication from anyone that their appearance is a surprise.

    I suppose, like you argue, it could be a fiction that doesn't represent the "reality" (heh) of the rest of the Star Trek universe, but wouldn't that undermine the point of the test?
     
  2. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    There'd be no appearance of surprise, I imagine, because the cadets are expecting a surprise. That's what the KM scenario is all about, isn't it?
     
  3. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it was about losing and facing death, not being caught off guard by something that would never actually happen.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it was definitely about things the cadets didn't believe possible - that would be the whole point of the "losing" bit.

    Whether it would be unrealistic to have Klingon battle cruisers inside the Romulan Neutral Zone, we don't know. There has been all this talk about a Klingon-Romulan alliance, and even though none of it is actually verified on screen, it would certainly account for this sort of "military aid". For an opposite take, it wouldn't be unexpected to find Klingons luring Feds into the Romulan Neutral Zone to die; the resulting war between Feds and Romulans would be to the benefit of the Klingon Empire. For all we know, Saavik was just reenacting a set of events that had been hot news a few months ago!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    That's what the scenario teaches, but it does it by continuously throwing new and worse obstacles up for the cadet. Klingons in the Klingon Neutral Zone would be expected; Klingons in the Romulan Neutral Zone would make a cadet sweat, maybe even panic.

    Reality is bound to throw curveballs at Starfleet officers, and the KM scenario is about getting used to situations going to hell quickly no matter what you do.
     
  6. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    You know, I wonder what happens if the cadet playing captain decides to turn and run as soon as the Klingons jam the frequencies and prepare to attack? In "real life," after destroying the Federation ship, they destroy the Kobayashi Maru after looting it. Why let two ships be destroyed when you can survive? Good of the many and all that?
     
  7. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    If a Starfleet cadet turns tail and runs, would they ever get command? "Risk is their business", according to Kirk. If a cadet doesn't want to risk, they shouldn't be in Starfleet, much less in command of a starship.
     
  8. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    One ship against an enemy fleet. All that will be accomplished is the death of your crew and the destruction of your ship. It doesn't seem to be bravery and sacrifice, it looks more like suicide.

    "Yeah, we'll give you a command. We love commanders who get themselves and their crews killed by going into a no-win scenario ignoring the escape option when the only other option is death."
     
  9. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Starships almost always operate alone. Being afraid to engage when outnumbered definitely means they shouldn't be commanding a starship, because starships are the first line of defense, and are almost always out of range of timely assistance.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    On the other hand, fleeing in real life is a perfectly valid combat maneuver, and often key to victory and control of the seas.

    German surface assets in WWII typically had standing orders to flee, making them far more formidable threats than if they actually engaged enemy warships. Fleeing made them invincible, allowing them to remain a potent threat to shipping. They, too, were "out of range of timely assistance".

    French fleets at the height of the age of sail were famous for their ability to flee, too. Their agile ships and excellent training on last-minute escape maneuvers gave them a massive strategic advantage, as the British or, say, the Dutch could never challenge a French formation to a decisive battle - so their amassing a fleet of decisive strength would have been in vain, making them vulnerable on all other fronts and weakening their hold of their respective empires. In contrast, the French fleets could maneuver at will and, thanks to the lack of means of locating ships at sea, strike with decisive strength against various overseas assets, another situation paralleling Trek.

    If Starfleet only operates a dozen ships of Enterprise caliber, at least on the frontier, it might be vital to drill their skippers in the art of tactical and strategic fleeing, thereby multiplying their power.

    We can rest assured, though, that the simulation would catch the cadet coming and going. Fleeing would no doubt be rigged to lead to destruction as well.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe the exception but what about the Battle of Trafalgar, where an outnumbered British fleet took on a formation of French and Spanish ships to earn a decisive victory.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  12. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    It seems to me that one of the lessons of the KM scenario is that anything they do could end up in a deadly situation. Whatever they decide to do, it can't be a decision made in fear.
     
  13. USS Einstein

    USS Einstein Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The Klingon Neutral Zone has been explained unofficially as being an area of mutual non-violent Cold War competition set up by the Organian Peace Treaty after 'Errand of Mercy'. The idea being each superpower can compete in developing third-world planets in the area, with them choosing which empire to join. I.E. the grain in 'The Trouble with Tribbles'.
     

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