Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Robert Comsol, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah!!! In my own deck plans project, I av introduced an S-curving corridor or two. Enough shows have edits that suggest they're there that I feel it's justified to work in.

    --Alex
     
  2. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    :D I like that. Good rationalization for what I consider an obvious flaw (probably during the "heat" of editing this episode)

    I'm not sure what you mean by "co-exist". Obviously there needs to be a doctor's office on the port side because of AT (Kirk's pacing in the office reveals exam room next to it. Chapel leaves through the same door, Spock entered earlier, only this time the "briefing room" door sign proportions on the opposite corridor side are better discernable).
    If this corridor extends to the one seen in MG, we have good riddance of the turbo lift # 3 position and a longer corridor enabling better rationalization of Lokai's and Bele's "jogging" on Deck 5 (especially the shot with Bele that reveals a rather long corridor, unobstructed by turbo lifts unless he is running in the outermost corridor, suggested by the red multi-purpose room door that should be yellow in the inner corridor). But - of course - there'd be two similar doctor's offices on Deck 5 with the wall lizards (I have no problem whatsoever with the skulls on the shelves. Even aboard the Defiant the doctor's office had those skulls, so I presume it's a hobby of Starfleet's ship surgeons to collect and compete for exotic skulls...;)).

    1. Yes, but we could debate if this corridor is the one right next to room 5R 672 or somewhere else.
    2. Yes
    3. "Kirk's odd flashback", otherwise Nomad's speed would suggest that the turbo lift is in the way to other rooms, here.
    4. Here, I have to disagree. Nomad might make a swing in the corridor but he is moving clockwise according to flopped shot (which I believe to be intentional). If this scene takes place next to the isolation bedroom 5R 671 (TI) there'd be no need to illustrate an S-shaped corridor (again, the atmospheric panel Spock works is the same one near McCoy's and the tri-ladder in AT, possibly indicating where the DP wanted this scene to take place and the camera movement in TI never reveals this corridor side's part that'd be necessary to locate 5R 672 here)
    5. and 6. Yes.

    Perfect! :techman: Basically you get inside and have to make a left turn to get to the actual door of McCoy's office. This would also take care of the opposing ladder and door we see when they enter the office in "The Changeling" (maybe this could be an inspiration how to deal with all those briefing room sets on the decks with the quarters. I'm still trying to figure out how the briefing room set could be converted into a multi-bedroom cabin if it's not briefing room, rec room, stairway room or shower room...;)).

    Is has only gone unmentioned because I haven't dealt with Deck 6, yet. ;) But "thanks" for reminding me of the dilemma. :klingon:

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  3. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I simply meant that the sets could appear in reality for our heroes, rather than relying on "shock flashbacks etc. In my opinion, these sort of get-out clauses should be avoided whenever possible (however useful they might be!)

    I also had in mind that this particular office might be completely separate from McCoy's usual one - this is the room attached to his sleeping quarters (in other words, his personal private PERSONAL office). As promised, here is one possible setup of my theory (still a work in progress):

    [​IMG]


    As my diagram above illustrates, a slight wavering of the circular corridor need not be a serious problem. After all, the Season 1 set had just such a twist at one end (again, near the Sickbay set).
    As to the reasons why the director & editor chose to use the flopped footage, I believe it was same reason as the "turbolift flashback" - they needed a shot they didn't have, and so re-used a scene from earlier in the episode. In the case of the corridor shot however, they had used the shot only a minute or so earlier - flopping the footage at least helped to make it look slightly different.

    Worse still, there' no way it can be the same corridor, let alone the same doors - here you can clearly see an A-frame (which is of course absent in the curving corridor)
    [​IMG]
    (click for full size)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  4. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I concur 100%. It should only be a last resort and prior to reading your post I speculated what that could be that looks like a turbo lift inside.
    Because of the similar shape of the "turbo lift window" and the "handle allusion" I thought that might be a storage place for an antigrav unit (someone in the medical department is currently using, that's why the antigrav unit is not in place...:rolleyes:).
    Obviously you can move the examination and excercise table but what about those bulky beds (just the other day I had a morbid thought: these beds also serve as coffins in case the patient died. The entire shape of the sickbay beds looks like you could put a cover hatch on these...:eek:)?

    As for the "environmental ladder" booth (good thing we don't see the ladder) I thought this might be a storage space for McCoy's EVA space suit. I think at least the senior officers on the ship should have their personal EVA suits in their quarters. In case of an emergency decompression that would still enable the senior officers to act.

    Yes, I had the same thought. Normally, I'd agree that the wavering of the Season 1 corridor end wouldn't be a problem (in AT we do not see the end of the corridor when Spock leaves the turbo lift) but in this case there's still the corridor end from TI (security crewmen exiting turbo lift) and in Cg we (fortunately) don't see the entire corridor end...

    I see that in your graphic the office is to the right. Let me try both options in the Deck 5 revision to see which one raises less questions than the other.

    I think you're right but I believe the DP's intention was only to tell us, that this scene takes place where we'd usually (expect to) see the tri-ladder and the brig before the engineering section set, so I'm inclined not to take it too literal. Like the aforementioned turbo lift shot with Nomad, the resolution of this shot is of bad quality (in HD) and doesn't have the crystal sharp look.

    Oh my, I had never noticed the A-frame earlier. Good eyes!
    But this is almost a friendly reminder not to take the footage too literal. I'm grateful that the clever editing (though apparently not 100% perfect at all times) provided us with more interesting spaces to discover. If I'm not mistaken this is one of the few instances where they added a side door to the set before it became a standard feature in Season 3.

    Bob
     
  5. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I suppose it depends how much credence you'll want to give to "director's intent" over what actually ended up on screen.

    For example, the chapel was clearly intended to seem to open up onto the main corridor, for Kirk's final stride. Putting a 4' door in place of the 3' door would not mess up the structural integrity of the ship and besides the barely glimpsed tri-arch this planned layout does not conflict with anything else. So, should we take it as the truth?

    Likewise the 4' double door into McCoy's office could easily be shrunk to a 3' size to match with the office interior - as clearly was the director's intention.

    In fact, "director's intent" could smooth over a lot of the stickier points in interpreting the Television Enterprise.

    HOWEVER (and this is just my own personal opinion) I do feel that what we see on screen should be given priority over design and directorial intent (whacky flashbacks not withstanding). The final appearance of the episode is what forms the "historical documents" and however useful the intent of the director and set designer (?forced perspective abuse!) might be in guiding our understanding, the end result is what really matters

    FWIW ;)

    Yep, I don't think this side door was used again until The Tholian Web, 2 years later! Design-wise, it is an odd place to have a door, especially with another one so near round the corner. Luckily, the two are not onscreen together very often. :)
     
  6. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    @ Mytran

    I only proposed "director's intent" to help us rationalize the scene. The way I see it you can either have the doctor's office in "The Changeling" on the port and/or on the starboard side.

    Of course, DP Herb Wallerstein might have watched Cg and decided he wanted to have room 5R 671 (new door sign?!) next to 5R 672 and therefore left the Cg area "untouched". In this case a later DP would have resolved the issue but that is, of course, pure speculation. ;)

    The chapel is a difficult issue, I presume there's only one aboard the ship and the one from "Balance of Terror" is essentially the same as in "The Tholian Web". I'd be inclined to prefer the one from "The Tholian Web" as the "leader" (briefing room set).
    If we adopted the editing of "Balance of Terror" as the real thing, the alignment of the briefing room set would probably stick out like a sore thumb in the deck plans.

    Bob
     
  7. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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  8. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Huh - I'm always learning something new on this board! Thanks Mytran :)
     
  9. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    ^^ I'm not sure I'm able to follow. They didn't do extension work on the set after Season One? Maybe it's just the wall panels that are different?

    But the last screencap with the actor position markers on the floor is a great find (unless these are candy wrappers left by the delegates...:D).


    [​IMG]


    Primary / Saucer Hull Cutaway (Version 1.00 / 130426)

    Before going for the alternate version of Deck 5 I thought it would be best to handle Decks 3 and 4 at the same time to make sure there’s a good match (of the ladders etc.).

    I wasn’t sure about the actual deck floor space up there so I used the opportunity to address an elephant in the room, i.e. the actual deck heights in the saucer.

    According to The Making of Star Trek (and I think it’s fair to assume these numbers came from its creator Walter Matt Jefferies) the saucer had 11 decks. And the Klingon projectile impacts in “Errand of Mercy” – hitting the lower underside of the saucer – were commented by Spock as “blast damage in Decks 10 and 11, minor buckling in the antimatter pods”. Thus it seems to be a logical conclusion, that the lowest deck in the saucer is Deck 11.

    Deck 2: However, The Making of Star Trek fails to mention whether the pilot version of the Enterprise or the redesigned version for the series had 11 decks. The pilot version (i.e. “The Cage” and “Where No Man Has Gone Before”) had a noticeably higher bridge “tower” that could have accommodated another deck (presumably with the circular conference or recreation lounge room) which was eventually removed.
    Now either the pilot version had 12 decks or just 11 decks.

    In the latter case the removal of Deck 2 would have reduced the amount of decks to just 10 in total, which is what the cutaway here shows (but remaining decks could have kept their designations). This might also explain why the diagonal turbo shaft comes to a strange halt before the bridge which probably wasn’t necessary prior to the removal.

    IMHO, the biggest support for this theory comes from “The Enterprise Incident” and the long turbo lift ride the Romulan Commander and Spock embarked on. It’s not plausible it took them that long to travel from the Bridge to the deck below.

    If the Enterprise no longer had a Main Deck 2, the computer understood Spock’s command “Deck 2” as the only other option left: Engineering Deck 2 (in the neck dorsal).

    Deck Height: This leaves us with a ceiling height potential of 2.8 meters for Decks 3 through 8. I believe I already stowed away the 3 m “monsters” in the engineering hull (i.e. straight corridor from “Where No Man Has Gone Before”, corridor with detention cell in “Charlie X”), but most assuredly hadn’t planned on that.
    2.8 meters is the level on which other decks would probably rest (in real life) on the support beams of the briefing room set. Like in real life I presume the deck floors are rather thin and supported by the enigmatic ceiling panels below.

    In the cutaway I assumed Deck 9 also to have a deck height of 2.8 m but as the exterior features reveal you’d require some sets of stairs to get to the airlock or observation windows which doesn’t make a lot of sense.
    This deck is probably much lower (according to TMP it is) and that’s good news for the two remaining decks below.

    The Phaser Control Room (“Balance of Terror”) on Deck 11 was a redress of the Engineering Control Room set and is approximately just as high. This probably reduces Deck 10 to be merely a level above the room floor behind the Phaser Control Room's wall with the grated window.

    Turbo Lift Cars: In some of the depictions I have seen, turbo lifts are higher than wide. Why?
    For me it had created the erroneous illusion that it’s a cramped space while in fact the turbo lift car has almost 8’ or 2.4 m in diameter, sufficient to transport a stretcher trolley with a patient to almost any deck of the ship and here is a nice shot that gives us an idea about the space inside.

    The height has never really been revealed but I believe it’s fair to assume it’s not that much higher than in the aforementioned shot (and according to TAS).
    The turbo lift has both equal length and height, or it may resemble a drum shape. I believe horizontal turbo shafts run above or below the deck corridors, therefore the ceiling support (and artificial gravity?) panels below the decks indicate the maximal height of a turbo lift car, IMHO

    Bob
     
  10. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In TAS, the ship would have to be larger than 947 so I have no problem scaling it up. That might allow you more leeway. Or, in terms of curved halls, you can do as Masao did with the WASP and have the circles ring around the secondary hull vertically.

    But a hailstone set in as you have it could make sense in that it leaves empty space for fuel and can serve as a radiation shelter.

    Keep up the good work.
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    ^^ Since you mentioned TAS I'd like to mention that I evaluated its sickbay scenes (i.e. several beds next to straight wall, several beds extremely close together, different doctor's office with larger big table and bigger viewscreen) where the rooms have an outspoken rectangular nature.

    Anything that is rectangular is, of course, "good news" for the engineering hull, so I'm tempted to locate some of these there.
    Apparently these rectangular rooms also connect to a circular corridor...;)

    I believe the window proportions of the engineering hull windows (compared to the saucer ones) and its shuttlebay tell us that we do have a horizontal deck alignment throughout the ship.

    Bob
     
  12. The Librarian

    The Librarian Commodore Commodore

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    I like the diagonal turboshaft, especially since it avoids one of the main issues with lifts in running the horizonal shafts without either them or corridors being cut off from each other. There's no reason it shouldn't be possible given stretchers and cargo pallets have anti-gravity capability.
     
  13. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    I like the execution of the diagonal lift in this project, but I am not totally sold on the idea over all. For my deckplans project, I am trying to minimize the amount of real estate taken up by turboshafts. I have always felt that was one of my big objections to the classic FJ prints, there being a heck of a lot of turboshafts everywhere.

    --Alex
     
  14. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Believe me, I understand how you are feeling.

    I consider myself having been indoctrinated with the idea of vertical and horizontal shafts exclusively. However, I found the diagonal shaft to be the only way to rationalize various nonstop "vertical" rides to the bridge from locations that are not near the vertical shaft.

    Upon closer examination I found the schematic of the ship from the Bridge in color to be most revealing: Are these red vertical lines turbo shafts or instead control and/or power lines?

    • If these are turbo shafts, then the Bridge has to be a turbo lift depot according to the top view
    • The one in the dorsal neck is compatible with the intermix chamber extension to the saucer of the TMP Enterprise (what was Andrew Probert thinking? ;))
    • Doesn't it seem extremely odd that the two turbo shafts in the nacelle pylons that have never been used or mentioned in TOS (and probably are hardly to never in actual use) are highlighted in the schematic? Wouldn't other turbo shafts aboard the ship better qualify to be highlighted?
    • And is it merely coincidence that these three vertical lines connect to the established control centers of the ship (where I and some others assume these to be), i.e. Bridge, Auxiliary Control (bow of engineering hull) and the Emergency Manual Monitor in the Warp Engine Room?
    If these are control and/or power lines, one could wonder why even have the vertical bridge turbo shaft that was never seen in TOS...except for a little extension behind the Bridge.

    To have one or several horizontal turbo shafts on Deck 6 in the saucer would do the job of optimal saucer-wide turbo lift distribution and to go there by taking a diagonal ride would just require a minimal detour starting at the Bridge.

    Admittedly, the "sum" of both turbo shafts in my first cutaway draft looks like crap. But then, I'm probably thinking too two-dimensional as the first deck plan draft of Deck 5 reveals that the amount of space both take up in the top view is rather negligible.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  15. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Look at it this way, if some multi-billionaire wants a 1:1 scale--not BTE dan but some casino owner, these plans leave a lot of empty space (i.e.Cheaper construction) and give the feel of what you saw on the show more directly.

    The dead space can be fuel storage.
     
  16. FalTorPan

    FalTorPan Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am super-impressed by how much progress you've made on this project, given the constraints that you have adopted (treating every visual and auditory cue in TOS as gospel).
     
  17. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks for the encouraging comments. I think some TOS fans might feel they are currently living in days of "Darkness" so I doubled my efforts to present some stuff that would hopefully cheer my fellow TOS trekkers up (at least I got a perfect excuse why I can't go to a theatre these days, the project consumes all my spare time :D).

    I thought that after the deck plan drafts for the engineering hull, the saucer would be a walk in the park, but apparently I was wrong, so here come Decks 3 and 4 and an E-Book style text comment...

    [​IMG]



    Main Decks 03 and 04 (130501)

    Frankly, I had always wanted to test a couple of my beliefs / assumptions regarding Deck 3 in the superstructure of the saucer, but now feel the results to be rather sobering.
    Notice that I changed the heading of the drafts (ahead is now to the right, astern to the left)!

    Deck 3:
    On this deck (just below the Bridge) we have seen Recreation Room 6 in “Charlie X” (and a corridor piece outside of it) and the turbo lift corridor from Lokai’s and Bele’s (L & B) arrival on this deck in “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” (LB). They apparently exit from a turbo lift lobby (as earlier in the episode Kirk and Spock near the hangar deck) and this L-shaped corridor already consumes some valuable space. Because the camera pan is rather unique, I think the port corridor leading to the outer area of Deck 3 could be depicted straighter than the actual studio set.

    The exterior upper row of horizontal windows probably belongs to some kind of elevated diner area which L & B passed (unseen) trying to find the stairway that would take them to the deck below.
    Though not too familiar with the ship, it appears they both understood that in the case of turbo lift shut off (below Deck 3) there are stairs taking them to the lower decks by using the outermost corridors and running counter-clockwise.
    Naturally, the back of the diagonal turbo shaft would be a perfect spot for such stairs and make it possible to make them re-appear outside the main corridor one deck below, and would help to add some meaning to Spock’s “Bele is chasing Lokai on Deck 3”.

    The circular (main) corridor featured in LB can’t possibly be on Deck 3. Since the dialogue doesn’t mention when they actually arrived on Deck 4 (and finally Deck 5) we can safely assume that part of their onscreen running occurred on Deck 4 (but I’ll get to that later). ;)

    Then, there’s the issue of the room with the shutter window from “Mark of Gideon” (MG) which apparently is on this deck, too, judging by the curvature of the hull (unless one wants to believe that Kirk carried Odona all the way up from the engineering hull after she passed).
    From the footage we can see that it’s again the multi-purpose room (with a yellow door) that has been re-arranged.
    Apparently, Kirk and Odona must have taken a Jefferies Tube, a tri-ladder or an “environmental engineering” ladder to at least get up to Deck 4 and then proceed via a normal stairway to Deck 3, illustrated just port side of Rec Room 6 (because they re-appear on Deck 5 at a location quite different from than the one they first started heading to). The footage in TOS-R (and assuming forward movement of the ship) suggests this shutter window to be on the starboard side.

    Pike’s Cabin:
    Unfortunately, there isn’t really space left to accommodate Pike’s cabin from “The Cage” on Deck 3. The Briefing Lounge set is clearly visible in the background and shouldn’t be ignored.
    Judging by the position of the table in the lounge in contrast to the later scene, this could be a different room, but its dimensions are known: Assuming a height of Yeoman Colt of 160 cm, calculating an inside angle of the red frame support beam of 77° (shot of Kirk leaning on beam in “Where No Man Has Gone Before”) and the outside angle of 63° (shot of transporter circuit damage in “The Enemy Within”) I arrived at a room width estimate of 8.5 m or 28’.
    To put this on Deck 3 would have seriously compromised the LB corridor scene, and I wouldn’t have been able to illustrate that the MG viewing port (multi-purpose) room is at the end of the “Pike Corridor”.

    Theoretically, the curved bedside wall in Pike’s cabin could just be the top forward superstructure extending down onto Deck 4.
    I felt this to be an acceptable alternate solution and therefore placed Pike’s cabin and the Briefing Lounge on this deck. Revisiting the first page of this thread at the bottom, it looks like Mytran was right. Had this panel in Pike’s cabin been considered to impose a VFX starfield background it would have been blue(screen) in the 1960’s, not green (that’s for modern CGI). In addition all the exterior window examples from TOS (according to the 1966 studio plans of the cabin set, the early Season One quarters of Kirk and McCoy did have “windows”!), reveal at least some kind of frame that’s totally absent in Pike’s cabin.
    This is probably just some kind of flat screen that gives the captain an outside view of the ship and its movement (TOS-R).

    “Lounges”:
    Apparently, these circular rooms from both pilot films are designated as “lounges” because in “Where No Man Has Gone Before” (WNM) Kelso is reporting from the Bridge to the “Briefing Lounge” (where Kirk is playing chess with Spock, expecting Kelso’s call from the Bridge).
    However, this is obviously not a briefing room (we do see that one later) but a recreation room. What’s the story?

    The “give away” detail comes in the form of a viewscreen at the end of the table, similar to the one first seen in “The Cage”. Apparently, the Briefing Lounge from “The Cage” was converted into a recreation lounge but somehow kept its name and location. The actual “Briefing Lounge” (I refer to as “Conference Lounge”) in WNM has a plain table and an umbrella roof alignment that is not the same as the one seen in “The Cage”.
    I assume it occupied Deck 2 but was removed when the Bridge module was lowered and briefing rooms became available instead (because life support equipment previously taking up that space became more compact, helping to boost crew complement from 203 to 430?).

    Although the “Crewmen’s Lounge” is mentioned in LB it can hardly be at the center and the new name for the “Briefing Lounge” because the running of L & B in the main circular corridor doesn’t get them any closer to the center lounge.
    However, the “Briefing Lounge” could have become the “Crewmen’s Lounge” (name change after WNM?) and extended by joining some rooms near the main corridor. IMHO, the existence of a “Crewmen’s Lounge” also suggests an “Officers Lounge” so I shall have one in the center of the upcoming revision for Deck 5.

    As for the purpose of these six beam frames in these circular and innermost rooms I assume these create a radiation-protective field in case of an emergency where this central room becomes some kind of survival shelter which would also justify the existence of two doors for this kind of room.

    Deck 4:
    Factually, the only visual evidence has to be concluded from LB. The postproduction editing of the counter-clockwise running of L & B allows for multiple interpretations as we don’t know whether the footage of Spock on the Bridge (following their movement) takes place before or after we see the running of L & B in the ship’s corridors.

    Obviously, they must have passed Deck 4 on their way from “Deck 3” to “Deck 5” and because they arrive in a main corridor coming from an outer corridor, this can’t possibly be Deck 3 (not enough space) but has to be Deck 4 before Spock confirms Lokai’s arrival on Deck 5:

    “Captain, I have located them on ship's sensors. Bele is chasing Lokai on Deck 3.”
    [Deck 4] Bele is passing Recreation Room 3, approaching the Crewmen's Lounge. Lokai is running past the Crewmen's Lounge.
    Lokai has just arrived on Deck Five. Passing Recreation Room 3 [Deck 5].”

    Where the footage gets confusing is this: L & B arrive on Deck 4 coming from the studio set “transporter room corridor” outside, run through the main corridor and seem to make a right turn into the studio set “engine room corridor”.
    The next scene shows Lokai having arrived in what seems to be an outer corridor “main corridor style”, but here it doesn’t make a lot of sense as the actual Deck 4 width is limited, too!

    To bring back my “reduced corridor radius” concept from the engineering decks wasn’t a usable option (wrapped around the Briefing Lounge the corridor then would be just too narrow to still be palatable and/or believable).

    One thing that I had to compromise (and most reluctantly I should say) was the original corridor section of Janice’s cabin I had envisioned earlier in the 2 o’clock position.
    The major reason for putting it there had been that once you match the actual Season One set blueprint with two Season Two blueprints joined at opposite corridor ends, you’ll miraculously get a perfect match for the corridors and thus a good justification for the otherwise odd angles of these corridors on these (upcoming) deck plans!

    As for the reasons I’m certain Yeoman Rand’s cabin 3F 125 is on Deck 4 (cabin in “The Enemy Within” was 3C 46 and on Deck 12!) it’s the sealed up “environmental ladder booth” because on Deck 4 you have no use for a ladder that goes any higher (the Season One ladders only went up!) and/or for artificial gravity control for the deck above (compare to post # 169).
    Come to think of it the lack of visible ladders in the main corridor on Deck 4 is rather necessary to keep L & B running around the deck in 360° to prevent them from using shortcuts to Deck 5 (of course, we have ladders connecting to Deck 5 but that’s insider knowledge of the crew. I forgot to add the stairway in Rec Room 3 Kirk took to carry Odona down to Deck 5!).

    But LB demanded I put an obstacle there to rationalize the right turn of L & B, and a turbo shaft (that will be there in the upcoming revised draft of Deck 5) seemed the best choice (currently this turbo shaft will run horizontal and along the ship’s central axis on Deck 6, turbo lift cars have to go up from there to service passengers on Decks 5 and 4).

    Since Janice occupied this cabin at stardate 1533.6 (CX) but no longer at stardate 1672.1 (“The Enemy Within”, Janice’s quarters moved to Deck 12) and since LB takes place at stardate 5423.4 I do think it’s acceptable to assume that in the four years in between this particular area was redesigned, i.e. the turbo shaft was extended one level higher and the cabin corridor doors removed (entry to this cabin is “now” via a side corridor not seen in LB).

    I’m not happy with the strange result but at least the door opposite Janice’s cabin helps to rationalize how Lokai (and especially Bele) “bumped” back into the main corridor as they apparently neither used the red bulkhead door nor the door of the sickbay examination room set!
    Not a beautiful and optimal solution but that’s what you get when you’re trying to be as screen-accurate as possible. :(

    YMMV, of course, and if anyone’s got a better proposal I’m definitely looking forward to it.

    2 Recreation Rooms Three?:
    The really odd thing in the LB dialogue is the obvious existence of a Rec Room 3 on Deck 4 and a Rec Room 3 on Deck 5.
    Of course, each deck could have multiple rec rooms but this would mean that Deck 3 didn’t have “primarily research labs, technician work areas and related duty stations” (The Making of Star Trek) but primarily six recreation rooms!

    In another Trek BBS thread blssdwlf suggested we might be looking at a recreation room that has more than one level, Mytran suggested that the room Kirk left carrying Odona in MG probably has a stairway and I recently suggested this to probably be Recreation Room 3 as it was probably passed in LB.
    The obvious solution to the riddle: Rec Room 3 has two levels, thus exists both on Decks 4 and 5 and a stairway connects the upper with the base level.
    And I believe I also “know” where the stairway is, because I presume Rec Room 3 is just above the main environmental engineering room seen in “Wink of An Eye” (on Deck 6).
    Some of these GNDN vertical pipes probably go through Rec Room 3 above but the space in between the pipes and the “transporter corridor set” wall seem ideal to use that space for a stairway.

    Another cabin of Captain Kirk?:
    I had believed that what we saw in “What Are Little Girls Made Of? (LG)” (turbo lift position off the central corridor axis!) would be a beautiful example for a cabin on Deck 4 (as the strange “off” position would be an excellent match with a diagonal turbo shaft) and thus assumed we saw another variation of a Kirk cabin at 10 o’clock.

    Perhaps Yeoman Rand occupied this cabin at stardate 1533.6 (CX), by stardate 1672.1 (“The Enemy Within”) she had moved to her new cabin on Deck 12, which was also the location of Kirk’s apparently provisional cabin with windows.

    By stardate 2712.4 the cabin on Deck 4 was in use by Captain Kirk (LG), which he probably gave up on behalf of a Babel delegate and took a provisional cabin in JB before he finally moved into his quarters we’d seen last in MG.

    Fact is that during TOS we have seen four different cabins of Captain Kirk, judging by noticeable differences in the adjacent corridor design.
    Either the man likes to move to different decks or sounds or is merely trying to create a distance (at least one deck level apart) to a previous romance. ;)

    Bob
     
  18. Potemkin_Prod

    Potemkin_Prod Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Location:
    Metro-Birmingham, Alabama
    Bob, I appreciate the hard work you're putting into this, but I can't see how you can assume Deck 4 for Cabin 3F 125. Logic suggests that it's either on Deck 3, Section F, or Section 3, Deck 6 (F). I'm afraid you're doing what us fan fic types term as "writing yourself into a hole."
     
  19. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Location:
    USS Berlin
    ^^ Have you compared all the TOS room / cabin numbers seen on screen? Here's a compilation (please feel all free to add those I missed, thanx!):

    • 3C 46 - room number of transporter in “Where No Man Has Gone Before”
    • 3C 46 - Yeoman Rand’s cabin in “The Enemy Within” ("Deck 12")
    • 3F 121 - Captain Kirk's cabin in "The Conscience of the King"
    • 3F 121 - Captain Kirk’s cabin in “Journey to Babel” ("Deck 5")
    • 3F 125 - Harry Mudd’s cabin in “Mudd’s Women” (with windows, apparently E-Deck 12 or 13)
    • 3F 125 - Yeoman Rand's cabin in "Charlie X"
    • 3F 125 - Spock’s cabin in “Amok Time”
    • 3F 127 - Dr. McCoy’s cabin in “The Man Trap” (with windows, apparently E-Deck 12 or 13)
    • 5R 671 - Janice Lester’s isolation bedroom in “Turnabout Intruder”
    • 5R 672 - Dr. McCoy’s office in “The Changeling”
    Whatever "logic" seems to suggest, it's apparently not working the way you assume it.

    First, the alphabetic deck numbering was a TMP invention which I believe arose from a misinterpretation. In "Court-Martial" Uhura located Finney on "B Deck" near the impulse engines. In TMP lingo this would be Main Deck 2 and is obviously incorrect.

    I had suggested that in ship's jargon the crew refers to certain decks not by numbers but to their nicknames, thus "B Deck" would be "Berth Deck" which in naval parlance would be the crew quarters on Main Deck 6 where the stern is housing the impulse engines. Same for "H Deck" in "The Conscience of the King" probably referring to the Hangar Deck.

    And assuming that Main Deck 8 is the Recreation or R Deck (it's the Recreation Deck according to The Making of Star Trek) instantly enables us to assume that the Auxiliary Control Room is on (Engineering) Deck 8 (if it were on Main Deck 8 Kirk's order to the crewman to "get down" to engineering and assist Mr. Scott in "The Doomsday Machine" would be somewhat odd, IMHO).

    Obviously the first number can't indicate deck location (as we've just seen there's not enough space on Main Deck 3 or E-Deck 3), neither can the alphabetic letter as "C" wouldn't correspond with "Deck 12" nor "F" with "Deck 5"!

    Apparently the first two numbers are section indicators while the last three have something to do with the individual cabin.

    The "1" in "125" could stand for first class cabin type (with food elevator and sonic shower ;)), while the "6" in "672" could refer to medical equipment (first aid kits?) available in the room.

    Since the engineering hull only had "minimal crew quarters" (MoST) I'd find it hard to believe that Harry Mudd's cabin was cabin # 125 in the engineering hull. :rolleyes:

    But I do see now, that the alternate option I described in the text comment (Janice vacated her cabin on Deck 4 after "Charlie X" and Kirk had moved in there by the time of "Little Girls") makes better sense because then section 3F on Deck 4 would better correspond with section 3F on Deck 5 below. :techman:

    Consequently, I'd move Spock's cabin (3F 125) on Deck 5 closer to Kirk's cabin (3F 121) in the revised draft for Deck 5.

    (Mytran will probably protest that I will have to ignore the corridor background from "Journey to Babel" but in return he'll get the Engineering Control Room on the port side and off-center on Deck 7. It's the tri-ladder Kirk used at the beginning of "Amok Time" which should otherwise lead straight down to the Engineering Control Room ;))

    Bob
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  20. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Location:
    Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
    3C 42 in "Where No Man Has Gone Before:"

    [​IMG]




    3C 44 in "Mudd's Women:"

    [​IMG]




    3C 44 in "Charlie X:"

    [​IMG]



    4F 36 in "Balance of Terror:"

    [​IMG]

    3F 123 next to the brig in "Turnabout Intruder:"

    [​IMG]
     

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