Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Robert Comsol, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    ^^ I should have known someone would remind me of the ceiling height issues with the saucer hull. ;)

    Thus far, I've tried to confine the visible 10' ceiling height "monsters" to the engineering hull (e.g. WNM long corridor, Charlie's detention cell in "Charlie X").

    I consider the B(erth) Deck reference in "Court-Martial" a constructive hint that FJ Main Deck 7 is at least crew quarters Deck 6 (supported by Dr. Daystrom's Deck 6 reference in "The Ultimate Computer").

    If I'm not mistaken, the lowest deck reference for the saucer was Deck 9 in "The Man Trap" but we can't entirely ignore Spock's blast damage report in "Errand of Mercy" regarding Decks 10 and 11 (after having witnessed Klingon projectiles hitting the saucer hull in the compatible area).

    Add to this I found more sickbay inconsistencies the further I examine the visual information. Apparently, it's not possible we have the wall pedals in the Season Two exam room one week (Chekov in "The Deadly Years") and next week there's a flat screen there ("Obsession").

    And the corridor scenes from "The Changeling", "The Deadly Years" and the "Lights of Zetar" (baryonic chamber) also suggest different locations. I'm getting close to a point where I wonder if three decks for the interior sickbay complex are actually sufficient to bring all those different elements together. :rolleyes:

    Bob
     
  2. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah sorry,but it had to be mentioned - although I now see your desire to fit as much as possible into the Secondary Hull.

    Anyway, while I agree that Sickbay did indeed undergo various changes over the years, I don't think they were all quite as drastic as you suggest. To take the example above, Chekov's foot pedals were nowhere near the location of the flat panel:

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x12hd/thedeadlyyearshd0398.jpg

    The Obsession scene is actually filmed in McCoy's Office next door, and the flat panel is simply adjacent to door (on one side) and Spock's bed (on the other). This set plan should explain better:

    [​IMG]
    (click for full size)

    Incidentally - production-wise, Obsession and Deadly Years were filmed 7 episodes apart - although quite how much relevance that has will depend on how you view the series order!

    Season 3 is the worst offender though, IMO. Some directors (Truth...Beauty) seemed determined to present the adjoining Sickbay rooms as completely separate!
     
  3. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I was going to present a compelling argument on how the 2 corridors are presented very differently and if the episodes are taken on face value they must be different - but it's your thread and your choice, ultimately. And I have a long drive tomorrow so I'll leave it for another time.

    I do like the notion of an "airlock" and "safety lobby" for LTBYLB however - it explains away those awful inconsistencies very nicely: Look at that blue floored room - not even double doors!

     
  4. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Just got back from the holidays (had the chance to embark on a 1960's Soviet Juliett-Class sub).

    You are right, the flat panel is on the wall where you put it (I do not remember having really seen during TOS).

    But in many shots taken in McCoy's office we do see the exam room to the right through the door frame and I wonder, if this flat panel wall shouldn't usually be in the way?

    You make it sound like you feel it's a bad thing. ;)

    The more I think about it, I wonder if the Enterprise should have medical space that's not only limited to the crew. The ship is often on patrol duty and provides medical assistance to colonies and outposts, and it has at least 4 "astro-medicine medical wards".

    I'm currently taking notes of all the sickbay variations and probably present a "sickbay studio set sheet" with the variations and corridors presented during TOS to illustrate the issue (I will need to correct the studio set piece you featured, McCoy's office wall shelves aren't nearly as sunk-in as the "official" studio set plan sugests).

    Bob
     
  5. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    The time in the sub must have been fun - after all, what (structurally) are Starships if not "subs in space"?

    Anyway, back to the thread- the shelves do indeed appear shallower, I hadn't noticed that! Sometimes the filming angle can play tricks but in this case it's a pretty clear departure from the plans. I would suspect that the change was made because the original design would leave next to no space for stagehands to move between the walls. McCoy's shelves differ somewhat in appearance too - maybe someone on the production team just happened to have a suitable set hanging around they used them instead?
     
  6. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I believe the exam table wall was usually closer to the shelf section of McCoy's office which could also explain why we didn't see more of that wall with the flat panel from the point of view in McCoy's office.

    On the other hand, "Mirror, Mirror" suggests that the arrangement here was very close to the original plans (with the exception of the white table that was possibly made of paper so the stuntmen wouldn't get hurt. A few scenes later when Sulu marches in we do have a sturdy black table there ;)).

    Bob
     
  7. Lenny Nurdbol

    Lenny Nurdbol Lieutenant Commander

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    Coming in late to this thread, but it does demonstrate exactly my problem with modern TOS revisionists. A ring corridor in the secondary hull! This automatically is one reason why FJ's blueprints are more plausible: because he exercised what's called common sense and plausibility. He was also an aerospace draftsman.

    I mean, if you take this Deck 14 line of thought one step further you'd might as well accept the turbo shaft scene in ST V and rebuild the entire Enterprise with 79 decks, and Deck 1 being at the very bottom of the secondary hull.

    Ring corridors belong in the primary hull. Period. They are shaped that way for a reason.
     
  8. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    It's hardly revisionism, Lenny. TOS used curved corridors for scenes that should have been in the secondary hull. You might want to go back and read through the discussions in this thread -- there are some pretty good reasons for the decisions made.
     
  9. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    That and it is Robert Comsol's interpretation of what he sees about the original Enterprise in his own topic. It is a little radical, but rather interesting. Please continue on Bob. :techman:
     
  10. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Hear, hear! I don't agree with all of his assumptions, but it's certainly an interesting and thought provoking vision of the TOS E! In fact, I daresay that this is one of two or three threads I most look forward to on this board.

    Keep it up!

    --Alex
     
  11. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I find the label of Modern Revisionism very interesting. How modern is "modern"? As has been pointed out, TOS frequently depicted scenes in/near Engineering and the Shuttlebay, which predates everything! :)
    Personally, I've been working on a similarly project for around 15 years (and I think Robert Consol has been at it a while longer).

    A decade after the original series aired, FJ released his plans. He took his design in one direction, one that has led to some criticising his work as a "floating hotel" due to all the bedrooms. I do like his design and layout of the corridors and turbolift network, but in truth it has little in common with what we saw week after week on our TV screens (and arguably, different to what Matt Joseph had in mind when he first designed Big E).

    If I was getting nitpicky, I might also feel tempted to mention the swimming pool behind the main deflector dish or the lack of structural elements throughout.
    If I was getting nitpicky ;)

    As for Star Trek 5? Different ship - and maybe her decks do start at the bottom...
     
  12. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    That's Matt Jefferies. I know a bunch of "J" names... easy to mess up...

    --Alex
     
  13. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Oops, that's what I get for writing late at night! :eek:
     
  14. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The more blueprints the merrier. If he wants circular halls in the secondary hull--go for it. I just ask he fill the empty spaces with interesting bits.
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Looks like I missed some interesting posts while putting Main Deck 5 together. ;)

    For the record and to avoid any possible misunderstandings: I do not "want" circular corridors in the engineering hull, as a matter of fact I hate and despise them and would have wished that Matt Jefferies would have been able to insist that the TOS DPs shoot scenes for the engineering hull in the long engine room corridor exclusively (heck, they managed to have rectangular interiors abord the Klingon Battlecruiser used by the Romulans in "The Enterprise Incident"!).

    But from the start I didn't want to embark on another "fantasy" deck plan project (I had my fill with the FJ deck plans to last me a lifetime) but on an interior reproduction that is as "screen-accurate" and as realistic as possible.

    Whether we like it or not, there have been TOS scenes taking place inside the engineering hull in the presence of circular corridors:
    • Kirk's cabin with exterior windows on (Engineering) Deck 12 in "Mudd's Women" and "The Enemy Within" (and McCoy's cabin with exterior windows in "The Man Trap")
    • Rand's cabin on Deck 12 in "The Enemy Within"
    • the shuttlecraft hangar deck access corridor in "The Doomsday Machine" (and in "The Immunity Syndrome")
    • the corridor outside the (warp) engine room in "The Ultimate Computer" (if this engine room where in the saucer, I'd wonder how you'd get from the saucer hull to the engineering hull via turbo lift in a manner that would still be realistic, believable and palatable...)
    • et cetera
    The mission goal's first priority are not deck plans that look nice but which are compatible with the onscreen information. I don't pretend to understand the minds of 23rd Century starship designers and engineers but if they felt that's the design they wanted for whatever reason, than that's the design I'll try to reproduce.

    Nevertheless my friends and I will try to fill in the blank areas in the engineering deck plans in a fashion that will hopefully distract from the central circular corridor as much as possible. ;)

    I hope we all do like these circular corridors...
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  16. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    [​IMG]


    Main Deck 05 (Version 3.02 / 130421)

    Apparently it took me a whole month to get from what I consider the “engineering deck essentials” to the main decks in the saucer hull.
    I felt that work on the saucer should start in its center or sickbay and I first compiled all the TOS sickbay footage only to discover there were more variations than just the drastic studio set change from Season One to the subsequent two seasons.

    While examination and exercise tables can obviously be moved (i.e. “Dagger of the Mind”, “Journey to Babel”, “By Any Other Name”, “The Tholian Web (Defiant)”, “The Day of the Dove”) to make space for emergencies arriving on stretcher trolleys, I don’t think life functions medical monitors in the examination room are equally flexible - which already gives us at least two Season One exam room variations. With Season Two (especially its early episodes) it’s also more than one sickbay room complex (not to forget the different door colors / functions in the corridor vis-à-vis the examination rooms and labs!).

    To cut a long story short: One central deck complex simply isn’t enough and personally I consider this to be great news as the onscreen evidence clearly suggests sickbay to be on Deck 5 (“Amok Time”, “Elaan of Troyius”) while the general assumption for its location is Deck 7, suggested by The Making of Star Trek (and popularized by Franz Joseph’s blueprints). Obviously, a sickbay complex on three decks is the golden compromise that should make every TOS trekker happy.

    The first solid evidence for sickbay to be on Deck 5 comes straight from “Amok Time”. Kirk and Spock travel to “Deck 5” where Kirk kicks out Spock who looks back at him while the door sign in the background apparently reads “astro-medicine ward 4” (and “5R 672”?). Since this is a ship and not a free standing building (where Ward 4 could just be the wing of a hospital) I have therefore assumed that Ward 4 is on Deck 5.
    Therefore our first encounter with Ward 4 (in the saucer…) already occurred in “The Naked Time” (3 o’clock).

    The Season One set occupied the same space as its successor but obviously the director of “Amok Time” introduced the new set with a twist: Instead of letting Spock walk straight into the new exam room opposite the turbo lift (red door), Spock starts to walk down the corridor (2 o’clock) and shows up in an exam room vis-à-vis a grey door! This tells us that the director had the red turbo lift door deliberately exchanged for a grey one that now belongs to a “briefing room” (but whose number is impossible to read).

    Next, the director of “The Changeling” felt the new doctor’s office should be where the actual door to the studio set exam room is! Strangely enough this resulted in a merging of the Season One rooms with these “out-of-context” Season Two variations between 12 and 3 o’clock but takes efficiently care of this strange issue.

    Other scenes taking place in or around Ward 4 (according to readable signs) are from “Way to Eden” and “Turnabout Intruder”.
    Theoretically, these could share the same corridor and sickbay scenes, except for the Season Two multi-purpose rooms: In WE it’s some sort of waiting room where Chekov and Irina seek some privacy (8 o’clock), in TI it’s an isolation bedroom (5R 671) where “Janice Lester” is kept (5 o’clock). And last but not least the (inner) corridor with Kirk’s cabin from “Mark of Gideon” needed to be on this deck, too, IMHO.

    The solution presented here was to make the corridor much longer, but alternately Kirk’s whole MG corridor could start near turbo lift designation # 3 and end at “9 o’clock”. In the latter case the WE waiting room then was converted into a bedroom shortly after WE…

    Should it be correct that Kirk carries Odona out of Recreation Room 3 in MG, it would seem that the aforementioned alternate option (i.e. separate MG corridor) is actually better compatible with “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” where Lokai and Bele passed “Recreation Room 3” on Deck 5.

    Their movement from Deck 3 towards the lower decks suggests the use of stairs, apparently near the edges of the outer “A-Frame” corridors. Since Kirk carried Odona out of the briefing / rec room set this would suggest the room to have either a stairway or a some kind of lift (7 o’clock). Apparently the stairway should be designed to allow space for the vertical tubes coming from the environmental engineering room below on Deck 6, seen in “Wink of an Eye”.

    The outer Deck 5 corridor was obviously featured in “Journey to Babel”. Kirk probably had to give up his normal quarters with a bathroom (MG) for one of the Federation ambassadors. The edit of the scene allows for Kirk, Spock and McCoy to have taken a “U-turn” in the 7 o’clock corridor to head astern to catch a turbo lift ride to the hangar deck.

    During their turn we can clearly see a “transporter section” direction sign, suggesting a transporter room on Deck 5 and in this area (used by Lokai and Bele in LB to transport off the ship).

    At 8 o’clock inside the ward I did a little experiment (the angle of the separation wall between doctor’s office and lab matched the angle of the sickbay beds too nicely…;)), for the time being I left the adjacent section including the isolation ward untouched as I might still need it for other TOS sets or also TAS (e.g. rectangular bedroom in “The Survivor”).

    Questions and feedback are much welcome (as always). Stay tuned. Enjoy!

    Bob
     
  17. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    My, but it's nice to see the rooms all laid out, however incomplete their final location may be :)
    Seeing your work really takes me back to jig-sawing in all the Sickbay components myself a few years ago. I must get back to that sometime...

    Anyway, comments:

    I see you've integrated some of the chase sequence from LTBYLB into Deck 5 - liking the use of stairs as a starting point! Lokai would then run anticlockwise along the circular corridor before ducking down the straight corridor towards the Transporter Section (all good so far). However, in the episode he turns LEFT into the final straight corridor before entering the Transporter Room - in your setup, Bele and Lokai would be turning RIGHT. Or have I missed something?

    Back onto the main function of Deck 5, I do like the way you've joined some of the Sickbay rooms together which vary then from the set layout. Are there going to be still more wards and examination rooms on Decks 6 & 7 though? That's a LARGE section of the ship given over to medical facilities - although things like life support and environmental engineering are related to medical needs, so I agree that including them near the Sickbay area is a good move.

    Finally, it is good to see a solution for the JTB walk that Spock, McCoy and Kirk do at the beginning of the episode. However, are you planning to resolve the weird corridor setup that is used when Kirk has his fight later? http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=7399804&postcount=69
     
  18. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Good catch! Originally I had considered that the 12 o'clock corridor should be the arrival point on Deck 5 (with the angled in "hangar deck set" pressure door) and access to the transporter section via the 10 o'clock corridor. But then I felt that I couldn't exclude the possibility that Kirk and Spock received the call from sickbay only a few yards away from it in the Cg "standard" corridor...and then forgot to fix the transporter room corridor, after I had shifted the arrival point.
    The solution appears to put the transporter room at its original studio set location and assume that Lokai overshot and made a U-turn to get to the transporter. That would also put the transporter room closer to sickbay to receive injured landing party members on the shortest way (I guess I'll still have space on Deck 6 or 7 to install the ET transporter room...;)).

    I do believe that a ship with a crew of 430 lives that also needs to serve as a movable hospital for colonists and the like requires more than just 5 beds (Season One and Season Two bedroom added together) in the sickbay complex. Deck 6 will see environmental engineering (according to "Day of the Dove") cannibalizing some of the sickbay space and Deck 7 will contain several labs (according to The Making of Star Trek) and the intensive care unit (less crew traffic on Deck 7). I'm curious myself how that's going to turn out.
    But I'll start on Deck 7 as the open "environmental" ladders need to align to the "fall-safe" ladders on Deck 6.

    :crazy: I'd say that's one of these rare exceptions where the director either screwed up or wanted to convey to the audience that Kirk is confused and about to pass out...(well, this strange edit definitely continues to confuse me every time I see it :D).
    When accuracy collides head on with believability, I'd prefer to choose believability.


    But there's another "screwup" that got me thinking. The late McCoy office scene in Cg is full of oddities:
    • Kirk and Spock arrive at the exam room double door but get into the doctor's office (intentional)
    • Nomad is leaving the room but it's actually a shot of Nomad leaving a turbo lift (definitely screwup)
    • Nomad's ride down the corridor is "flopped", suggesting he's hoovering down the corridor clockwise (intentional? the atmospheric control panel Spock is working on is usually at the opposite corridor's end as seen in AT !!!)
    Here one could argue that this office (5R 672) is actually next to the isolation bedroom from TI (5R 671) !!!

    In the TI corridor we only saw the "Jefferies Tube Corridor" but not the opposite side (i.e. tri-ladder, red door to "engineering" etc.). If I were to present the MG corridor and the one from WE (and consequently TI, too) as two separate corridors in the next draft, I'd definitely keep this option in mind (although I'd feel that two Dr. McCoy offices on the same deck are a little too much. Alternately his office section in his personal cabin on Deck 5 - in contrast to the provisional one on Deck 12 in "The Man Trap" - just looks like his public office).

    Bob
     
  19. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Nomad appearing out of McCoy's office (with a turbolift background) is something I just attributed to Kirk being so surprised to see the probe that he had a sudden flashback!

    However, after watching the scene again, I see no reason why the various scenes can't co-exist in reality:

    1. Kirk & Spock receive a call to report to Sickbay. They run down a corridor.
    2. They arrive at a DOUBLE door, labelled as McCoy's quarters.
    3. The doors open, revealing Nomad. Behind him is a background that resembles a turbolift directional indicator panel.
    4. Nomad moves forward and left, establishing the corridor to be of "S" shape design (however slightly). Spock watches Nomad hover slowly away.
    5. Kirk runs toward the doors, which open.
    6. In McCoy's office set, Kirk walks smartly in, followed by Spock. A SINGLE door closes behind them.

    In other words, the DOUBLE doors lead to a short corridor from which McCoy's office (for this episode anyway) is attached. I'll try and rig up a diagram tomorrow, but hopefully you get the jist of my theory.

    BTW, this switching of single and double doors has been happening since Season One - one example that has so far gone unmentioned is in BOT: In the penultimate scene Kirk leaves the chapel through double doors, which appear to transform into a single doors prior to his final dutiful stride down the corridor.

    The swapping of doors would not be such a problem if they weren't noticeably different sizes - 3' wide for a single door, 4'wide for a double.

    On a side note, thank you for drawing my attention to McCoy's wallbound lizard. I can't believe I didn't notice it before! :confused:
     
  20. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Funny enough the door switch-ups gives (me anyway) opportunities to fiddle with the corridor arrangements. It does make it interesting to play with than just re-arranging the same set over and over again based on the backstage set plan, IMHO. :)