Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Robert Comsol, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Potemkin_Prod

    Potemkin_Prod Commodore Commodore

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    On the contrary, I'm not assuming anything. However, your reply is full of "suggested," "believe arose from a misinterpretation," "assuming," "enables us to assume," "as we've just seen there's not enough space," "wouldn't correspond," "Apparently," "could stand for," "find it hard to believe that," and other such language.

    I just think you're overanalyzing visual evidence that is contradictory at best, and at worst is meant to provide a wonderful canvas for story telling, rather than detailing the floor plan of the ship.

    Don't get me wrong; I'm admiring the work you're putting into this immensely, but I think you're allowing your assumptions about Deck 3, 4, 5, etc. to bog you down. The numbers on the doors could simply be "comm numbers" for the quarters (as suggested by 3C 42 being on the side of Kirk's command chair).
     
  2. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    @GSchnitzer

    Wonderful! Many Thanks. :techman:

    Since the nomenclature you presented doesn't match the observed facts, it was obviously an assumption. Presented with the observed facts you now arrived at a conclusion that is compatible with the observed facts. :techman:

    Rather than to make final statements or dealing in absolutes I prefer an open-minded approach that illustrates or leaves rooms for options. The goal is to get a deck plan reproduction that is optimal in terms of onscreen-accuracy and onscreen-compatibility. I already realized that it's better to have two corridors of equal length on Deck 5, it's better to move Janice's cabin from "Charlie X" to the port side and at least I should give it a try to illustrate a Deck 3 with Pike's cabin (at the expense of the LB corrior, obviously).

    I usually try to avoid making statements I'll regret later.

    You're entitled to your opinion, and in case there's any misunderstanding I also feel that the stories are more important and the essence of Star Trek than floor plans of starships. But I do have a soft spot for it and think that credible floor plans will essentially add to the stories and the believability of what we saw on screen.

    Where I object is this "contradictory at best" as this is among these lines "they didn't know what they where doing". Since fans making such claims had not been eye-witnesses to the actual production they do not know, therefore such statements are a show of despicable disrespect for the fine people that brought us Star Trek and usually this is just a lame excuse for not doing in-depth research.

    Check out the "Jud Taylor Conection": He was the director of "Wink of an Eye" (# 68), "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" (# 70) and "The Mark of Gideon" (# 72).

    In WE the briefing room set was converted into Environmental Engineering with pipes extending to the decks above and below, leaving little space on one side of the (enlarged) set other than for a stairway of the deck above (or below).
    In LB we then saw the obvious existence of a Rec Room 3 on two decks (4 & 5) which indicated the existence of a stairway connecting these two decks. And finally, in MG we obviously saw this stairway in use when Kirk carried Odona out of the room, apparently coming from the upper deck(s).

    Now either that's a colossal coincidence or a clear hint that the DP and Matt Jefferies were giving more thought to such details than most fans usually assume.

    One thing that's really driving this project is the amount of convergence I constantly discover in little details just as the aforementioned one which I think are worthy to justify my lengthy text comments.
    The basic assumption (and that's all it can ever be) is that the producers knew exactly what they were doing and it's our "job" to reconstruct that knowledge. ;)

    No need to worry. Since I have to assume (...) that you're not roaming the Trek BBS just to find fault with others, I take your remarks in the positive sense, i.e. that you showed interest and concern. That's exactly the kind of feedback I'd like to see more often, especially if it enables me to rethink an idea or theory. While this is still the stage of heavy WIP I'd eventually like to arrive at a set of deck plans that's palatable to most trekkers.


    Yes. Especially considering Kirk's cabin in "The Conscience of the King" was "3F 121" while the close-by sections they ordered to be sealed off were "C4" and "C5".

    Therefore, things like "3F" probably indicate power grids or the like, but not sections. That's the kind of constructive feedback I'm talking about...;)

    Bob
     
  3. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Here is a conjectural theory inspired by the discussion:

    After the pilots they came up with a nomenclature how to use the door signs, where “3F 125” stood for grid 3F on Deck 12 and cabin 5 (Mudd’s cabin in “Mudd’s Women” / # 4).

    I believe the outside of Kirk’s cabin in this episode (“Deck 12”) had the door sign “3F 121” but we didn’t get a chance to see it (similar story like with “Recreation Room 6” in “Charlie X”. We never saw the door sign outside but in later episodes it suddenly popped up).

    When they shot “The Enemy Within” / # 5 they put Rand’s cabin on “Deck 12”, too, but only recycled the “3C 46” and thus the problems began, someone possibly criticized why “3F 125” hadn’t been used instead.

    For “Charlie X” / # 8 they redesigned the set outside of Rand’s cabin to fix the mistake from “The Enemy Within” to place it on grid 3C on Deck 4 and cabin 6 (the Season One studio set’s “environmental” ladders only had one direction: Up. Deck 4 is the only deck with the uncompromised main corridor radius having no deck above for this ladder to go to! It’s amazing they went through the hazzle of covering it up, but that just shows their attention to detail).

    But then someone remembered that the cabin was supposed to be on Deck 12 and so instead of “3C 46” the door sign of Harry Mudd’s cabin (“3F 125”) was recycled, although her “new” cabin was supposed to be on Deck 4.

    After such confusion they possibly felt they probably couldn’t ensure proper use of the door signs throughout the series and decided to focus on other issues instead.

    Just an idea. ;)

    Bob
     
  4. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    So basically the meaning of the signs are only known to the crew of the ship and their appearance and location is so arbitrary that it defies any explanation we can come with? I can buy that. ;)
     
  5. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Not that arbitrary that it defies any explanation. ;)

    To me, at least, it would make sense if the first two letters were some kind of power grid. Assuming there is a malfunction in the grid or maintenance required, it would be more efficient to announce shipwide "There's gonna be repair / maintenance work in grid 3F on Main Deck 5 between 1000 and 1300 hours tomorrow".

    Cabin occupants should immediately know whether their cabin is affected or not - by simply looking at the numbers on their door sign (if they haven't memorized these already).

    Essentially, this grid locator could serve as an alternative to sections where to locate certain areas in the ship (currently, I'd say "3F" indicates the port side in the saucer).

    Despite what may or may not have been intended for the other digits of the door signs these seem to indicate room numbers.

    Thus room "3F 123" (the door sign of the unseen room next to the brig in "Turnabout Intruder") could be somewhere between Kirk's cabin "3F 121" in "Journey to Babel" and Spock's "3F 125" in "Amok Time".

    Bob
     
  6. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    I guess Kirk's chair is on grid 3C42 but the other parts of the bridge is on 3F100 ? :)
     
  7. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Would now be a good time mention the other type of cabin designation? Specifically, "cabin 341" mentioned in Obsession.
     
  8. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    ^^ It's always a good time for more TOS observations. :D

    Either Janice and Spock had the same cabin in TOS and the corridor outside underwent reconstruction (same applies for Kirk's cabin in "The Conscience of the King" versus his cabin in "Journey to Babel") or the first number simply indicates what kind of class the cabin is.

    Because Garrovick held the rank of ensign, I've always wondered why he enjoyed the luxury of the typical officers cabin.
    However, if he only had the third class cabin # 41 ("341") I could better live with that.

    If I'm not mistaken, isn't this the first time in Season Two where the cabin's door sign only has a name but no numbers?
    Same applies for Kirk's cabin in "The Mark of Gideon" and Uhura's in "Elaan of Troyius".

    The one thing that still puzzles my mind is the "Personnel Records" door sign next to Kirk's bedroom in "The Mark of Gideon".
    Did they decide to put the personnel records under Kirk's mattress after the Nomad Incident? :eek:

    Bob
     
  9. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Many of the locations for rooms are puzzling - a lot of the 2-room cabins are squeezed between other "working" parts of the ship, not in a dedicated accommodation section as you might expect (and indeed directed to by the signs, such as the oft seen "OFFICER'S QUARTERS")

    As for Garrovick it is still a puzzle, as he seems to have just as much space as Kirk (the second area of the cabin is visible in one scene). So, what makes it third class?

    Although he does hold the rank of Ensign, he seems to be a high level security officer in the episode (and Rand got her own cabin). Maybe that is why he gets a room to himself?
     
  10. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    I figure that the cabins squeezed between other "working" parts of the ship falls in line with the idea of a packed ship of equipment with crew squeezed in. It reminds me alot of old navy ships that had bunk beds next to equipment.

    I'm not sure "3" could be third-class as it does look very similar to other cabins. We don't get a good look into the second area though. Is it a work area like Rand's cabin? Or a second bed and he has a roommate?
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    The use of the briefing room studio set as a room of "environmental engineering" could suggest that, but "Wink of an Eye" would be the only episode where they put the set to engineering use.

    I absolutely hope so. The office desks use up a lot of valuable space so ideally only senior officers or the captain's yeoman should be able to use them.

    Oh, these OFFICERS QUARTERS direction signs. :crazy: How many different ones do we have?
    The one from "Day of the Dove" read " 6F-24 66-38 ", others read " 6F - 53 77-99 ".

    Apparently these show up on almost every deck of the saucer. Either you have officers quarters on all crew decks or stairways or the like leading to these and on other decks. I find it increasingly difficult to rationalize these for the deck plans.

    Bob
     
  12. kennysmith

    kennysmith Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    hello to this person, how would you like to help in my project of trying to build a web page for everyone who want to get a real star ship off the ground of starting with a web page?.
     
  13. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks for the invitation, but first I need to finish this project, and I've already fallen behind my own set schedule. I hope I'll be able to present a saucer deck template for Decks 4 thru 8 this weekend.

    Bob
     
  14. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    4 through 8! Boy howdy! I'm excited...

    --Alex
     
  15. kennysmith

    kennysmith Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    i like on what you are doing can you tell me this have you got this in your hands of this, it is a star trek role playing game of the star ship of the enterprise ncc 1701?. if you don't have them i can give you a copy of them. the game is out of print.

    i just wonder if you can turn that plan into a 3D web page? of all of the decks?.
     
  16. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Kennysmith, are you referring to the old FASA deckplans? If so, as I recall, those were based very much on the Franz Joseph Booklet of General Plans. Our fellow board member Havoc92 is working on the very best 3D model of those plans I've ever seen. You can find his work on this thread:

    http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=112779


    I kinda doubt Robert Comsol's project is what you're looking for, as he's doing his own thing based on totally different parameters.

    Or, possibly, I totally misunderstood what you're asking... in which case, just ignore me...

    --Alex
     
  17. kennysmith

    kennysmith Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    i have some question to. the first thing i have ben fellow mamber of havoc92 project as well to. i have ben trying to get a hold of him as well to. he is doing so good on his project others didn't think he could do so good. it do take a lot of time to do this. i do know it is not easy to do this. i just hope you can do the same for me in geting some info from you please robert comsol. i would like to talk with you more please
     
  18. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I think we are looking at a misunderstanding.

    All I have been doing thus far is essentially puzzling paper copies of the studio sets together to make them as onscreen-accurate as possible.
    This will serve as the basis for my friend Andy to turn my "dirty" drafts into clean 2D (!) CAD blueprints.

    I can't do 3D, neither can my friend Andy. For the time being, I hope that one talented 3D artist will eventually turn my deck plans into 3D.

    Bob
     
  19. kennysmith

    kennysmith Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    i want you to know this at less we are both looking at the same thing i do hope. i do like what you have found out so far. there is not a lot of info about any part of the star ship out there at all.
     
  20. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks for the appreciation. Of course, much of my draft work is conjectural but the more screen-accurate I can get it, the higher the probability that this is the way it is, could or should be.

    [​IMG]


    Corridor Alignment Template (130517)

    As a result of my “credit card policy” (design now, worry about the ramifications for the other decks later) I realized I should have paid more attention to a realistic turbo shaft network on Deck 6, first (the widest of all decks and therefore the one to expect the location of the horizontal turbo shaft network, IMHO).

    Earlier, I had assumed that the 90° corridors would be turbo shafts on Deck 6 but then there’d be no space left to put enough and longer corridors there.
    The obvious solution to the “problem” is to have turbo shafts that align in close proximity with the turbo lift locations seen, but in a manner that makes sense, conforms to a minimum of symmetry, and allows making optimal use of the remaining corridor space. This was the major inspiration to come up with this template you see here.

    Of course, the decks will not all look like this, I intend to replace some Season One corridor sections with (shorter) Season Two / Three corridor sections wherever this is required and possible.

    Concerning the alignment of transporter rooms (essentially a rectangular room) I had really wanted to put these in 90° angles, too, but the one from “Day of the Dove” (one if not the only one where we see the “sickbay” turbo lift in use next to the transporter) clearly insists to be in close proximity to the diagonal turbo shaft (considering the shortness of the apparently non-horizontal ride to the bridge, and Spock who acknowledges Kirk’s yellow alert signal on the Bridge and arrives in this transporter room apparently and only several seconds later!). At least the transporter chamber looks symmetrical in relation to the central saucer axis...;)

    The inevitable consequence is, of course, that the starboard impulse engine room can’t be nearly as high as the Engineering Control Room on the port side. However, this is good news for the TAS engine room that is obviously much lower (and could tell us that the vertical column powers the transporter room above).

    While most of the corridor alignment is conjectural, the one thing that has obviously been established by “The Naked Time” is the alignment of the Season One corridor between 9 and 1 o’clock on Deck 7, due to the actual shape and position of the Season One engine room set.

    Obviously, Matt Jefferies acknowledged the need of a turbo shaft to connect the saucer with the engineering hull and accordingly gave the engine room the angle we see (enough space for a turbo shaft to run between those engine rooms!). I just don’t understand why some fan works don’t take this into account, the Season One studio blueprints were not that difficult to acquire via Lincoln Enterprises and have been accessible online for some time now.

    In addition, blssdwlf’s has presented an excellent extrapolation (post # 60) why the impulse engines should be considerably larger than what Franz Joseph’s and other deck plans have suggested, not only if one seriously assumes that the impulse engines are essentially a particle exhaust “rocket” drive, but also if one tries to imagine what “blowing up the impulse deck” (not just an engine room, apparently?) would have looked like in an alternate reality of “Where No Man Has Gone Before”.

    Interestingly, there was no turbo lift door next to the Engineering Control Room in “The Naked Time”. At least that explains the detour Kirk and Spock had to take from the Bridge to get there, but I’m already getting into the text comment for the Deck 7 draft which yet needs to be illustrated with the other medical wards and laboratories supposedly to be on this deck.

    Bob