Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by gastrof, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Yes -- Like I said, there has been no official word from anyone associated with the film that Kirk is in black because he is a "cadet" (I mean underclassman cadet). Kurtzman only said "there is a reason" he is in black, but he didn't give the reason...and EW magazine doesn't count as "official", nor was their comment straightforward enough to be meaningful.

    As others have said, Kirk could be in black for many reasons -- Command School, Academy Instructor, its an undershirt (although Kurtzman would be a bit misleading if he meant 'undershirt' was a "reason")
     
  2. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Did you serve in Starfleet?
     
  3. JonPaulWild

    JonPaulWild Ensign Newbie

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I'm fully aware that to properly judge things that we all must see the movie first and give it a chance. However, I was thinking that the 'new' Enterprise and stuff we've seen looks quite advanced to be honest and hi-tech. What I mean by that is that if the time line has been changed then surely it's been changed for the worst.

    The attack on the Kelvin could severely injure or kill a member of the crew who had influence in future Enterprise and thus the design/technology used is different. So what if the Enterprise we've seen in the promos that of the proper time line, but Nero goes back and attacks the Kelvin...which then results in the changing of the future and the Enterprise and style of Enterprise (which due to the attack is now a inferior less advanced version of JJ's) we see in TOS and beyond.

    Obviously, from what we know the Kelvin doesn't last long in the film so my above theory has a bit of a problem given that we have around 2 hours left and thus that would have to happen somehow at the end of the film. Unless the film is created in a way to Lost with flashbacks/flashforwards or even reversed in a sense.

    I just think that going back in time and damaging anything in that period would surely lead to inferior technology not superior like we see with the 'new' Enterprise and very techy Enterprise bridge.
     
  4. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I'm not going to discount the possibility that Kirk really will be an underclassman cadet who takes command of the Enterprise...

    ...but if he does, I hope the writers/director give me a damn good and believable reason for his doing so. I personally can't think of a good enough reason (but then again I'm not a screenwriter)

    This could be. However, I don't need (nor want) an in-universe explanation as to why the Enterprise looks different. It's enough for me that this is a film made in 2008, thus the set design and art direction would of course be different than a TV show made in 1966.

    I think an in-film explanation is unnecessary and may bog the film down.
     
  5. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I suspect it will be less than eight (time compression is often employed in historical feature films that deal with real subjects--sci fi has less of an investment in "realism") but I sincerely and seriously doubt it will be "cadet to captain". IF it is (and I consider it unlikely), then my estimation of the filmmakers will be severely diminished. I'm not especially worried, though.
     
  6. SiddFinch1

    SiddFinch1 Captain Captain

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    he would if Kirk was supposed to be elsewhere. Kirk could be a Lt or even a Lt. Commander posted on another ship who sneaks on the big E for some reason
     
  7. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Yes, but I think it would be perfectly possible to tell a good story within a more realistic framework that didn't rely on some kind of "exceptionalist," King Arthur type of scenario. Not that I am assuming the movie would be like that.

    That's what I'm betting as well. The black shirt is just the undershirt to the regular uniform.

    --Justin
     
  8. xortex

    xortex Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers


    I love this post. We are dealing with clever but not thoughtful writers and directors who are trying to 'steal' Star Trek so they can get a bigger cut and more credit.
    Um, Polaris, did you read this post ? So this is an alternate origins story of a universe that both does and doesn't take place. That to me is already a disadvantage that wasn't necessary and then to make a whole movie explaining it seem meaningless. By distancing itself from the original it has lost it's power. Let me be clear I never said this movie is gonna suck. From what I've seen I think it is awesome film making thus far. As for the story, It'll probably only be good by sheer chance. Instead of steak and potatoes, we'll get a tuna or peanut butter and jelly sandwich with cinnimon! and the sound of a thousand nerds crying out in unison.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2009
  9. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    And what, may I ask, has Polaris got to do with that post?
     
  10. xortex

    xortex Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Well he tried to convince me that not tying it into TOS was not a bad idea.
     
  11. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I don't follow.
     
  12. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    That does kind of sum up my problem with this whole project.

    Sort of a big fat "So what?"
     
  13. xortex

    xortex Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    If Gastrof can learn to like this movie, so can I. It must be the spores.
     
  14. xortex

    xortex Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers




    Agreed.
     
  15. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    So Xortex --

    What you are saying is that this may not be exactly what you were expecting (or wanted) and that this film may not tie directly in with the rest of the Star Trek universe (even though you may have preferred that it did)...

    HOWEVER, you will still try to enjoy the film for what it is -- and that is a stand-alone film based on the TOS characters and settings -- and you may even end up enjoying it for what it is, as long as Abrams made a film that you can enjoy.

    If I didn't misrepresent your position, then :techman:.
     
  16. xortex

    xortex Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    They're are saying it ties in in an oblique way. I'm saying it was probably a mistake not to tie directly into TOS.
     
  17. Erehwonnz

    Erehwonnz Cadet Newbie

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I'm not sure what source was meant above in regards to jumping between timelines, but this source does suggest that the film actively pursues different realities; I'm not sure how accurate that is, but perhaps we can expect different Kirks, different Enterprises, or a world that echoes the orginal more closely in the end.

    http://screenrant.com/new-star-trek-movie-plot-details-vic-1290/

    For all we know at this point, the characters we have seen so far might not even be the same versions of themselves, athough this seems rather overly complicated. Just a thought.
     
  18. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    ^
    ^^ I remember reading that. I'm not sure if screenrant.com really knew that much about the film almost a year ago (the article was dated February 2, 2008), but it is something to consider.

    Let's stipulate for one minute that this film will in fact switch back and forth between realities (and I realize I may be talking out my ass here), but maybe (just maybe) that's why the writers found a valid reason to have Kirk wearing black in one of those alternate realities (and gold in the other?)

    Perhaps this plot device is similar to Gwenyth Paltrow's character in the film 'Sliding Doors'. That film explored a "what if" scenerio in the life of Paltrow's character, switching back and forth between the two scenarios -- or "realities". The two different scenarios were caused by exploring "what if" she gets on a certain London Underground train in time to catch her boyfriend at home cheating on her, and "what if" she misses that train (the "sliding door" closes before she can get on). After the train scene, the film continued on, showing both scenarios moving forward, switching back and forth between them.

    To help the audience from getting confused as to which "what if scenario" we are watching, Paltrow's character decided to have her hair cut short in one of the scenarios -- i.e. she looked very different in each, just like PERHAPS black shirt/gold shirt Kirk looks different.

    I dunno...just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2009
  19. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I suspect that the one shot, from the trailer, where we see Pine wearing what we THINK are "Captain's stripes" (can't be 100% sure, since they're not exactly what we've known for 40+ years)... is the closing sequence of the film, after things are set "mostly right." Yes, it's still the same lame Bridge set... but if there's a sequel (not sure if I want that or not... though I'm leaning towards "no") perhaps they can show us a different (TOS-ish) bridge next time and we can just "mentally retcon" that bridge into the last scene of this flick.

    Timelines I suspect we'll see...

    1) Post-TNG
    2) Pre-TOS (Kelvin)
    3) Altered-TOS (everyone else moved ahead, Pike is still in command during TOS, the ship is different due to recovered technology from the Kelvin attack, Kirk didn't go to the Academy at 17 and finally goes at 28 or so)
    4) Restored-TOS (basically what we know from TOS).

    Alternatively, we might not get "restored TOS." In which case, Pine had better not be captain by the end of the flick (hard to justify a time-leap of a number of years ahead AFTER the action is over, so he'd have to be made captain due to him being so kewl and neat... :rolleyes:)
     
  20. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Why is this hard to justify? And how do you know there isn't sufficient screen time to establish that "last scene" (if that is indeed what it is)? While we some of what is going on, we don't know very much and what little we do know is likely out of sequence.