Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by gastrof, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I'm sorry if I missed it, but was there an actual quote by Orci, Abrams, et al. or a confirmation that Kirk is actually a cadet when he is supposedly taking the command of the ship in lieu of Spock?

    All I know is that Kurtzman once said about the black shirt:
    "It is not a random thing. There is a reason his shirt is the color that it is."

    and Entertainment Weekly Magazine wrote:
    "Black is apparently the color of space cadets in Abrams' universe"

    Besides Kurtzman's enigmatic and non-specific statement, plus the attempt at clever writing by the less-than-authoratative EW magazine, was there any other official indication that Kirk is wearing black because he is an underclassman cadet AND it was that underclassman cadet that (temporarily?) becomes the commanding officer of the Enterprise?

    I think it is possible that Kirk is at Academy Command School, or he is possibly an Academy instructor when he "needs" to assume command over Spock.
     
  2. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Maybe he was an officer before the Kobayashi Maru incident and was temporarily relieved of those duties pending some kind of inquiry.
     
  3. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    ^
    ^^Interesting...

    ...perhaps Kirk's "tinkering" with the Kobayshi Maru programming was not discovered until (years?) later, and as punishment Starfleet is requiring Lt. Cmdr. Kirk to take that course again at the Academy (maybe the Kobayashi Maru test is the final for an Academy Course).

    They find out he cheated on the final and make him retake the whole class.

    Although in my scenerio, does he beat the test the second time, also? And if so, how?
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I find it unlikely that Kirk's tampering with the Kobayashi Maru test would not be detected until later. The mere fact that Kirk 'won' the simulation would be evidence enough, since everyone who takes it must 'lose' (i.e. fail to rescue the ship, and/or have their ship blown up by the Klingons).
     
  5. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    ^
    ^^ I agree with you on that in principle -- I'm just brain-storming here.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    It is an interesting idea, though, that the only reason Kirk is a cadet during the film might be because he's (temporarily) relieved of his commission because of the cheating. It still wouldn't make it that much more plausible for him to instantly make Captain (even if he's a Lieutenant) but coupled with the inevitable time jumps, it would be slightly more believable.
     
  7. ClayHefner

    ClayHefner Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Interesting. Thanks for the info.
    In any case, if Nero is somehow determined to kill Kirk, bringing alternate Kirk to either replace "real" Kirk or alternate Pike could be bait for Nero to go after Enterprise instead of Vulcan or w/e.
    Maybe the story that JJ Abrams "always wanted to tell" was: What if an everyday person could "become Captain Kirk"?
    . Of course this was already the theme of "Galaxy Quest".
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Well, as I said, it was an early spoiler. It may not survive the final cut...

    And even if it does, I highly doubt that it would be possible for characters to travel between the two. We, the viewers, might see them both, but nobody in the film could.
     
  9. Keeper

    Keeper Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Location:
    Land of Illusion
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I am not thinking at all about what might not now happen, I am thinking about what might happen. The future is wide open and the possibility's are, again, endless! :cool:

    If it sucks then I'll be in the corner gently rocking and sobbing incessantly.
     
  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Down in the tube station at midnight
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    IN the trailer we see Kirk and McCoy at least three times before they get to the Enterprise:
    [​IMG]
    Cadets getting ship assignments. Kirk and McCoy on the left with backs to the camera
    [​IMG]
    Golly, gee whiz cadets McCoy and Kirk
    [​IMG]

    Grizzled, death and disease McCoy in what might be civvies. Kirk in black.

    No idea if they are going to the E in picture 2. Picture 3 seems more likely.

    Though 3 could be pre-academy.

    Cadets in red in pics 1 & 2. Could be a cadet between Kirk and McCoy in 3.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2009
  11. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Location:
    In the bleachers.
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Well, Kirk wasn't assigned to the Enterprise. Even if he were an officer (a junior one, too), he couldn't just show up on the Enterprise and say, "Here I am, ready for service." It wasn't his ship (assuming he had one at all). McCoy found a loophole, but he was nonetheless helping Kirk break orders. It'll be interesting to see why McCoy was willing to help him get aboard.
     
  12. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    This is true. The folks who created and wrote "Star Trek" drew pretty exclusively on their experience with the modern American military (not talking about the movies, which are much later addendums).
     
  13. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Location:
    Terra Inlandia, Kelvin timeline
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Link?

    I remember something being said about the story-telling being non-linear, in that they'd be jumping back and forth in time, but I'm not sure I remember what you mention.

    Also: did you notice that it's clearly Urban's profile seen in the picture and not that of Quinto?
     
  14. Vigilance

    Vigilance Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I disagree. I mean, clearly Gene in the original premise drew from his WWII service, but to say Trek models ANY real world military, past or present, especially a modern military, is just laughable.

    Kirk and co. in TOS are shown to be on their own. That right there makes it nothing like our modern military.

    Look at Where No Man, or Balance of Terror, where Kirk is dealing with potentially explosive, war-causing, universe-altering situations, on his own, with the nearest voice message weeks away.

    A modern military commander would be on the radio to a senior officer or political leader in those situations.

    And of course, Star Fleet as an organization seems to flat-out reward and encourage insubordination, if the fact that Kirk continues to be promoted is any indication.

    The description of him in ST VI, as someone who violated the chain of command whenever it suited him, is one of the most accurate things about James T Kirk ever uttered.

    So to the extent that it models any military organization we've ever seen, I'd go with 19th century Horatio Hornblower/Master and Commander style naval fiction.

    But in reality, it's a utopian future, where the way they run things would make any real military man want to tear his hair out.
     
  15. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I have the feeling -- as others have said in other threads -- that the "Bob Orci Quantum Theory explanation" is simply a de-facto "outside-the-film" explanation to fans for why things will be different. I don't think the movie will even mention two alternate realities as an "in-universe" plot point. Changing the future by going into the past, yes -- but not two alternate realities.

    Because of Orci's "out-of-film" explanation, some of us fans may think we have a greater level of understanding for the film's plot, but to the casual fan who knows nothing about the film before seeing it, the fact that Orci said there are two alternate universes will be irrelevant, because that fact probably IS irrelevant to the story being told.

    Abrams did this a lot with "Cloverfield". Due to the viral marketing campaign, there were things that a close obsever of the viral marketing could pick up in the film, such as the meaning of the object falling in the water at the end of the film. But to most people who only saw the film (and not the viral campaign), those extra items meant nothing, nor did being ignorant to the existence of these items detract at all from the film's story.

    I think Orci's "Quantum Physics" explanation is simply for the sake of the fans and has nothing to do with the actual story in the film. The film will only show one universe -- albeit we may be told that Nero somehow "changed the future" of this universe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2009
  16. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    I think the word some of us are looking for is "contrived."
     
  17. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Location:
    Terra Inlandia, Kelvin timeline
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Yeah, I got the impression he was simply explaining part of how he arrived at the idea for the story, not that it was going to be something we'd see spelled out in excruciating detail on screen. But the thing I mentioned about non-linear story-telling was from months ago -- long before the "Orci's Awesome Quantum Theory" interview -- and I got from Baba's mention of "an early spoiler" that he was also talking about something from earlier this year, possibly during summer or even shortly after principal photography was wrapped.
     
  18. trekkerguy

    trekkerguy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers


    Eeeeexactly. The fanboiz are the only ones making a fuss of it.
    No one who sees the film outside these online message boards will
    know or care about the explanation. Which makes perfect sense
    but really doesn't matter when judging the film.
     
  19. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    You're right about the non-linear story-telling thing (I didn't mean to derail the point of your post).

    I remember trekmovie.com saying 2 years ago that this will be a non-linear story-telling that will jump around in times. in fact, here is an article from trekmovie (from EXACTLY 2 years ago, to the day) that talks about jumping around in time:
    http://trekmovie.com/2007/01/03/star-trek-xi-update/

    However, they may have simply been extrapolating what they know about Abrams' style -- like on 'Lost'. The fist three season of 'Lost' featured flashbacks to before the crash, and the past two seasons have shown flash-forwards to events that happen after the rescue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2009
  20. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Location:
    Terra Inlandia, Kelvin timeline
    Re: Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers

    Heh, I remember that one, or at least the bit about "then the cone of silence descended". A lot was little more than rumor at that time, and some bits have changed or disappeared, and some projected dates have altered a bit, but it's not radically different from what we've seen much more recently, or from bits we've collected in between.